WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 23, 2021

Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtontitty Planners!
	6:01pm listener james from westwood: Howdy, Mark and all!
	6:01pm ARB: Hallo Mark and Shannon and other kindred spirits!
	🤖 6:02pm DjLorraine: Hi friends. Traveling thru some states the rest areas had signs that said they were monitoring. Not so restful areas.
	🤖 6:02pm tim from washington: Hey Mark! Hello Tech Tockers!
	6:02pm WR: Double Dip Techtonic!
	6:02pm P-90: This episode was listed in “Upcoming Special Programs” so I expect it to be really special.
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Mark! more music this week? I can get yer link. www.wfmu.org...
	6:03pm P-90: Mark gets my vote for “DDR Regular Guest Host”
	🤖 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and Techtocrats!
	6:05pm TDK60: Hi Mark.
	6:06pm HyperDose: Plugged in!
	6:06pm P-90: “versioning” -a verb for the 21st century
	🤖 6:08pm Ken From Hyde Park: Sounds like a similar plan is going on in Poughkeepsie - www.poughkeepsiejournal.com... ("Uncharted Power turning Poughkeepsie to a smart city through sidewalks, roads, tech")
	6:09pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Must always be New Versions - & never retro-compatible of course. & always for their own sake.
	6:09pm P-90: Wait, you mean Google has never disclosed all of the capabilities of those LinkNYC kiosks? It’s a secret?
	6:10pm headcleaner: Fun medium post from 2019: "Keep your internet off my things" - medium.com...
	6:11pm jeanli: YAY SHANNON!
	🤖 6:13pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Connected ones!
	6:14pm Mark Hurst: @ultra @james @ARB @Lorraine @Tim @WR @P-90 @Webham @KfHP @TDK60 @HyperDose @RevRabbit @headcleaner @jean @Bas hi hi hi hi!! Thanks for joining!
	6:14pm ultradamno: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments waiting to be computed
	🤖 6:15pm Webhamster Henry: I'm a HUGE Christopher Alexander fan .
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: @P-90 it's true, one of the docs acquired about LinkNYC mentioned dozens of sensors, but (beyond a few, like a wifi sniffer) the public has never found out what all of them are. AFAIK there's not yet been a privacy audit, either (a point that came up a couple of years in the NY state legislature, if I remember right).
	6:16pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ultrad - I prefer to consider myself more of a RepliCan than a Replicant...
	6:17pm ultradamno: Way to see the electric sheep as half charged!
	6:18pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Monoculture. Here we go again being the exact reverse of the Decentralized & personally empowering society computers & the interwebz were going to bring us...
	6:19pm Androu B.: Greets, Techheads! Any product with the word "smart" attached to it can have subliminally treacherous purposes integrated into it, with the exception of general use products such as batteries or phone cases. @P-90 That shouldn't be a surprise to you by now after all that Mark has already reported about Google's affairs so far.
	6:19pm Mark Hurst: I love that detail, that Hudson Yards had to force the trees to grow their roots horizontally, rather than vertically like normal trees. I'm sure the trees were delighted.
	6:19pm headcleaner: "Computation" is indeed omnipresent in nature, but it's just another physical process - like thermodynamics. or the basic physical laws of chemistry. So to say that "everything is computation" is just as vacuous as saying "everything is thermodynamics".
	🤖 6:20pm Bas NL: Smart soil...
	6:20pm Carmichael: "It is what it is." My favorite non-statement.
	6:21pm Richy4619: I have been greatly disturbed by the continuous use of my neighborhood in San Francisco as a training ground for Google's self-driving vehicle project (Waymo). Their cars are EVERYWHERE. It is particularly spooky to observe them driving through our empty streets late at night.
	6:21pm yippie: thats why the tallest bike in the world is called STOOPIDTALLER
	🤖 6:21pm Ken From Hyde Park: Smart BS™
	6:23pm Megaroni: Not surprising to connect that Sidewalk Labs has their office in that soulless part of town
	6:25pm yippie: is it smart or is it resmarted?
	6:27pm Marci: I’m glad to say I have never set foot anywhere near HY- yet I can’t avoid those sidewalk surveillance kiosks
	6:29pm Whoopsy: Hudson Yards also has that sculpture that draws suicides
	6:29pm jeanli: Ok that is SO HUNGER GAMES.
	6:29pm yippie: and the escalator is overlong!
	🤖 6:30pm Bas NL: Resistance is futile. You are one of us.
	6:30pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: What are you saying ...the Borg is not Transparent & OptIn ?!? Man are you a Subversive.
	6:31pm yippie: but the architect has a cute haircut
	🤖 6:31pm tim from washington: That type of convenience sounds so hectic. It's fine to be habituated but it's really scary thinking about forcing the hand of habituation.
	6:32pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: What Are People For
	6:32pm hoohoo: All needs anticipated and provided for. A future only a consumer pod person would love.
	6:33pm jeanli: Eliminate Friction, ha. F-R-I-C-TION!
	🤖 6:33pm tim from washington: Bjorn Borg is transparent? No wonder he was a tennis whiz.
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: Borg is inclusive!
	6:34pm Micheal: Hudson Yards is for people who would otherwise be living in Kansas City, Minneapolis or some other second-tier city. It ain’t New York.
	🤖 6:35pm Ken From Hyde Park: Let's say all I wanted was a Pepsi. Would the drone give it to me?
	6:36pm Carmichael: And that's when Skynet became aware.
	6:36pm Eya Wacity: As a librarian, it's nice to see someone acknowledge what's possible
	6:36pm jeanli: YAY Libraries
	6:36pm Mark Hurst: @Eya welcome!
	6:37pm yippie: the drones gonna shoot the pepsi in your nose
	6:37pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Libraries are familiar w/ dealing w/ civili rights & free speech issues.
	🤖 6:39pm Bas NL: Books are futile. Google will service us.
	🤖 6:39pm tim from washington: As a public library employee and who is not a librarian, I think Shannon captured very accurately what is happening in libraries and discussions about the mission of libraries.
	🤖 6:40pm Ken From Hyde Park: Wait, isn't Amazon out to corner the market on book delivery?
	6:40pm yippie: you can ask the ants living in los angeles where you can pepsi in aluminum or glass
	🤖 6:41pm tim from washington: "and who is not a librarian" I mean that I'm not a librarian.
	6:42pm WR: Right, @6:39 @Bas NL, Google has already started trying to obstruct libraries access to digital rights for publications.
	6:42pm WR: Oops, I meant to say that about Amazon.
	6:45pm Eya Wacity: There's actually a lot of bullshit gatekeeping in the profession of librarianship. The credential (MLIS) is expensive and the holders can be insecure. All library workers are essential
	6:45pm Androu B.: The very reason I never bought into all the hype over iPhone.
	🤖 6:45pm Bas NL: In our university all publications are entered in a commercial, payed database. If not entered it is not counted as a publication by the university.
	6:47pm kevlicki: Hi mark and all. Late to the party. Wearing my techtonic sign off shirt today
	6:48pm Carmichael: Dang Tim, I had so many Dewey Decimal questions ....
	6:49pm Eya Wacity.: That sucks, Bas. Especially when there are so many non-commercial repositories available for archiving and public dissemination
	6:50pm Roland from Australia: I very much like the idea’s around libraries, forward thinking for sure, very much highlighting the inadequacies of big tech.
	🤖 6:51pm Folsom: uh oh, Mark is conjuring poster Bigfoot
	🤖 6:51pm Bas NL: @Eya Wacity It has generated a lot of discussion; especially with PhDs. They need to pay for the database to give proof of their publications.
	6:52pm Roland from Australia: @kevlicky nice shirt 👕 I where mine often.
	🤖 6:53pm DjLorraine: Thank you Mark Hurst and Shannon Mattern
	🤖 6:53pm tim from washington: @Carmichael - who's Dewey Decimal? Never heard of the guy? ;)
	6:53pm coelacanth∅: i've never seen these gobble kiosks. can they be reached with paint rollers?
	6:54pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: TY As Ever
	🤖 6:54pm tim from washington: Thanks, Mark and Shannon. I'm going to put in a purchase request for Shannon book at my library.
	6:54pm listener james from westwood: Thanks, Mark!
	🤖 6:55pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Shannon!
	6:55pm Androu B.: Heading off to PLU now. Bye all!
	6:55pm ultradamno: I would hope the high rise is soulless
	6:55pm Richy4619: Nice, Tim! Direct impactful action. Power to the library assistants!
	6:55pm Roland from Australia: Hey there is still five minutes!!! Keep talking :) love the show!!!
	🤖 6:55pm Ken From Hyde Park: I likely won't visit NYC for a few months. Is there a Hudson Yards app I could install?
	6:56pm Greg from ZONE 5: Thanks Mark!
	6:56pm People Like Us: thanks Mark!
	6:56pm coelacanth∅: but i like the idea that for a moment a drone would be within reach, to be pulled down and stomped into the sidewalk -before pouring shitty starfucks coffee into it
	6:57pm Jeff Moore: "Enjoyed" is a funny word, isn't it?
	6:57pm listener james from westwood: When I first heard Ziggy's track here I thought it was about that British sci-fi series from the ’70s.
	6:58pm Eya Wacity: @Bas. Ed tech surveillance is the fucking worst
	6:59pm headcleaner: Or get out of your chair and patronize your local independent (and hopefully decades-old) coffee shop!
	6:59pm Androu B.: Btw, today marks the 10th anniversary of the Virginia earthquake felt all around the East Coast and Midwest.
	7:00pm listener james from westwood: They're still repairing a cathedral in DC damaged in that quake! Unreal.
	🤖 7:00pm Bas NL: @Eya Wacity The lesson is you can succeed in science if you pay through your nose..
	7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:04pm WR: thank you Mark!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 23, 2021

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Nov 25th, 6pm - 7pm: Technology we're thankful for (More info...)
Amidst all the headlines about predatory tech companies and misbehaving billionaires, we're taking a moment to remember that some tech is actually good. Drawing on listener submissions, Mark will discuss the tools, gadgets, and systemsthat people are genuinely thankful for.
Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic

August 23, 2021: Shannon Mattern, author, "A City Is Not a Computer"

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: Shannon Mattern, author, "A City Is Not a Computer: Other Urban Intelligences"

Links:

• A City Is Not a Computer: Other Urban Intelligences - available at Princeton University Press with 30% discount using discount code ACNC.

• @shannonmattern (Twitter)

• wordsinspace.net, Mattern's site where she posts most of her publications and course materials, and upcoming events.

• Mattern's original Places Journal article (February 2017) arguing that "a city is not a computer."

• Wired magazine review of Mattern's book (Aug 10, 2021)

• Starbucks customer gets drink order delivered via flying drone (Insider, July 27, 2021): the dystopian vision gets demo'd

Sign up to get Mark's weekly email newsletter. You can also join Mark's Creative Good community.

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Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"	0:00:00 (Pop-up)
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Shannon Mattern "Interview with Shannon Mattern"	0:09:11 (Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"	0:43:58 (Pop-up)
Ziggy Marley & The Melody Makers	Tomorrow People	0:54:35 (Pop-up)
Shannon Mattern, author, "A City Is Not a Computer"

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Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtontitty Planners!
	6:01pm listener james from westwood: Howdy, Mark and all!
	6:01pm ARB: Hallo Mark and Shannon and other kindred spirits!
	🤖 6:02pm DjLorraine: Hi friends. Traveling thru some states the rest areas had signs that said they were monitoring. Not so restful areas.
	🤖 6:02pm tim from washington: Hey Mark! Hello Tech Tockers!
	6:02pm WR: Double Dip Techtonic!
	6:02pm P-90: This episode was listed in “Upcoming Special Programs” so I expect it to be really special.
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Mark! more music this week? I can get yer link. www.wfmu.org...
	6:03pm P-90: Mark gets my vote for “DDR Regular Guest Host”
	🤖 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and Techtocrats!
	6:05pm TDK60: Hi Mark.
	6:06pm HyperDose: Plugged in!
	6:06pm P-90: “versioning” -a verb for the 21st century
	🤖 6:08pm Ken From Hyde Park: Sounds like a similar plan is going on in Poughkeepsie - www.poughkeepsiejournal.com... ("Uncharted Power turning Poughkeepsie to a smart city through sidewalks, roads, tech")
	6:09pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Must always be New Versions - & never retro-compatible of course. & always for their own sake.
	6:09pm P-90: Wait, you mean Google has never disclosed all of the capabilities of those LinkNYC kiosks? It’s a secret?
	6:10pm headcleaner: Fun medium post from 2019: "Keep your internet off my things" - medium.com...
	6:11pm jeanli: YAY SHANNON!
	🤖 6:13pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Connected ones!
	6:14pm Mark Hurst: @ultra @james @ARB @Lorraine @Tim @WR @P-90 @Webham @KfHP @TDK60 @HyperDose @RevRabbit @headcleaner @jean @Bas hi hi hi hi!! Thanks for joining!
	6:14pm ultradamno: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments waiting to be computed
	🤖 6:15pm Webhamster Henry: I'm a HUGE Christopher Alexander fan .
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: @P-90 it's true, one of the docs acquired about LinkNYC mentioned dozens of sensors, but (beyond a few, like a wifi sniffer) the public has never found out what all of them are. AFAIK there's not yet been a privacy audit, either (a point that came up a couple of years in the NY state legislature, if I remember right).
	6:16pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ultrad - I prefer to consider myself more of a RepliCan than a Replicant...
	6:17pm ultradamno: Way to see the electric sheep as half charged!
	6:18pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Monoculture. Here we go again being the exact reverse of the Decentralized & personally empowering society computers & the interwebz were going to bring us...
	6:19pm Androu B.: Greets, Techheads! Any product with the word "smart" attached to it can have subliminally treacherous purposes integrated into it, with the exception of general use products such as batteries or phone cases. @P-90 That shouldn't be a surprise to you by now after all that Mark has already reported about Google's affairs so far.
	6:19pm Mark Hurst: I love that detail, that Hudson Yards had to force the trees to grow their roots horizontally, rather than vertically like normal trees. I'm sure the trees were delighted.
	6:19pm headcleaner: "Computation" is indeed omnipresent in nature, but it's just another physical process - like thermodynamics. or the basic physical laws of chemistry. So to say that "everything is computation" is just as vacuous as saying "everything is thermodynamics".
	🤖 6:20pm Bas NL: Smart soil...
	6:20pm Carmichael: "It is what it is." My favorite non-statement.
	6:21pm Richy4619: I have been greatly disturbed by the continuous use of my neighborhood in San Francisco as a training ground for Google's self-driving vehicle project (Waymo). Their cars are EVERYWHERE. It is particularly spooky to observe them driving through our empty streets late at night.
	6:21pm yippie: thats why the tallest bike in the world is called STOOPIDTALLER
	🤖 6:21pm Ken From Hyde Park: Smart BS™
	6:23pm Megaroni: Not surprising to connect that Sidewalk Labs has their office in that soulless part of town
	6:25pm yippie: is it smart or is it resmarted?
	6:27pm Marci: I’m glad to say I have never set foot anywhere near HY- yet I can’t avoid those sidewalk surveillance kiosks
	6:29pm Whoopsy: Hudson Yards also has that sculpture that draws suicides
	6:29pm jeanli: Ok that is SO HUNGER GAMES.
	6:29pm yippie: and the escalator is overlong!
	🤖 6:30pm Bas NL: Resistance is futile. You are one of us.
	6:30pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: What are you saying ...the Borg is not Transparent & OptIn ?!? Man are you a Subversive.
	6:31pm yippie: but the architect has a cute haircut
	🤖 6:31pm tim from washington: That type of convenience sounds so hectic. It's fine to be habituated but it's really scary thinking about forcing the hand of habituation.
	6:32pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: What Are People For
	6:32pm hoohoo: All needs anticipated and provided for. A future only a consumer pod person would love.
	6:33pm jeanli: Eliminate Friction, ha. F-R-I-C-TION!
	🤖 6:33pm tim from washington: Bjorn Borg is transparent? No wonder he was a tennis whiz.
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: Borg is inclusive!
	6:34pm Micheal: Hudson Yards is for people who would otherwise be living in Kansas City, Minneapolis or some other second-tier city. It ain’t New York.
	🤖 6:35pm Ken From Hyde Park: Let's say all I wanted was a Pepsi. Would the drone give it to me?
	6:36pm Carmichael: And that's when Skynet became aware.
	6:36pm Eya Wacity: As a librarian, it's nice to see someone acknowledge what's possible
	6:36pm jeanli: YAY Libraries
	6:36pm Mark Hurst: @Eya welcome!
	6:37pm yippie: the drones gonna shoot the pepsi in your nose
	6:37pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Libraries are familiar w/ dealing w/ civili rights & free speech issues.
	🤖 6:39pm Bas NL: Books are futile. Google will service us.
	🤖 6:39pm tim from washington: As a public library employee and who is not a librarian, I think Shannon captured very accurately what is happening in libraries and discussions about the mission of libraries.
	🤖 6:40pm Ken From Hyde Park: Wait, isn't Amazon out to corner the market on book delivery?
	6:40pm yippie: you can ask the ants living in los angeles where you can pepsi in aluminum or glass
	🤖 6:41pm tim from washington: "and who is not a librarian" I mean that I'm not a librarian.
	6:42pm WR: Right, @6:39 @Bas NL, Google has already started trying to obstruct libraries access to digital rights for publications.
	6:42pm WR: Oops, I meant to say that about Amazon.
	6:45pm Eya Wacity: There's actually a lot of bullshit gatekeeping in the profession of librarianship. The credential (MLIS) is expensive and the holders can be insecure. All library workers are essential
	6:45pm Androu B.: The very reason I never bought into all the hype over iPhone.
	🤖 6:45pm Bas NL: In our university all publications are entered in a commercial, payed database. If not entered it is not counted as a publication by the university.
	6:47pm kevlicki: Hi mark and all. Late to the party. Wearing my techtonic sign off shirt today
	6:48pm Carmichael: Dang Tim, I had so many Dewey Decimal questions ....
	6:49pm Eya Wacity.: That sucks, Bas. Especially when there are so many non-commercial repositories available for archiving and public dissemination
	6:50pm Roland from Australia: I very much like the idea’s around libraries, forward thinking for sure, very much highlighting the inadequacies of big tech.
	🤖 6:51pm Folsom: uh oh, Mark is conjuring poster Bigfoot
	🤖 6:51pm Bas NL: @Eya Wacity It has generated a lot of discussion; especially with PhDs. They need to pay for the database to give proof of their publications.
	6:52pm Roland from Australia: @kevlicky nice shirt 👕 I where mine often.
	🤖 6:53pm DjLorraine: Thank you Mark Hurst and Shannon Mattern
	🤖 6:53pm tim from washington: @Carmichael - who's Dewey Decimal? Never heard of the guy? ;)
	6:53pm coelacanth∅: i've never seen these gobble kiosks. can they be reached with paint rollers?
	6:54pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: TY As Ever
	🤖 6:54pm tim from washington: Thanks, Mark and Shannon. I'm going to put in a purchase request for Shannon book at my library.
	6:54pm listener james from westwood: Thanks, Mark!
	🤖 6:55pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Shannon!
	6:55pm Androu B.: Heading off to PLU now. Bye all!
	6:55pm ultradamno: I would hope the high rise is soulless
	6:55pm Richy4619: Nice, Tim! Direct impactful action. Power to the library assistants!
	6:55pm Roland from Australia: Hey there is still five minutes!!! Keep talking :) love the show!!!
	🤖 6:55pm Ken From Hyde Park: I likely won't visit NYC for a few months. Is there a Hudson Yards app I could install?
	6:56pm Greg from ZONE 5: Thanks Mark!
	6:56pm People Like Us: thanks Mark!
	6:56pm coelacanth∅: but i like the idea that for a moment a drone would be within reach, to be pulled down and stomped into the sidewalk -before pouring shitty starfucks coffee into it
	6:57pm Jeff Moore: "Enjoyed" is a funny word, isn't it?
	6:57pm listener james from westwood: When I first heard Ziggy's track here I thought it was about that British sci-fi series from the ’70s.
	6:58pm Eya Wacity: @Bas. Ed tech surveillance is the fucking worst
	6:59pm headcleaner: Or get out of your chair and patronize your local independent (and hopefully decades-old) coffee shop!
	6:59pm Androu B.: Btw, today marks the 10th anniversary of the Virginia earthquake felt all around the East Coast and Midwest.
	7:00pm listener james from westwood: They're still repairing a cathedral in DC damaged in that quake! Unreal.
	🤖 7:00pm Bas NL: @Eya Wacity The lesson is you can succeed in science if you pay through your nose..
	7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:04pm WR: thank you Mark!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 23, 2021

Upcoming events:

Listener comments!

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