WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 13, 2023

Listener comments!
	🤖 6:00pm Handy Haversack: Mark! Techyons! Wish K8 were here for this one. Very much an angle she constantly tries to take in her teaching, much to the chagrin, confusion, and denial of many of the educational powers that be.
	6:00pm David in London: Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonindergarteners!
	6:01pm Rolando: Greetings friends and earthlings
	6:01pm Miss G: HH, I'm sure you'll fill K8 in, with salient arrows for her quiver. My head is splitting but I know if I say "archive" it won't get done. Good evening Mark et al
	6:02pm Carmichael: Heya Markie Mark and His Techie Bunch.
	🤖 6:02pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Miss G @6:01 Fletchers, bowyers, and archers of justice! Or at least of loaf.
	6:03pm PolakSlovak: ↳ David in London @6:00 Hi David in London, also in London here! Happy to be listening live for once.
	6:04pm Miss G: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:02 and for "the chillllddddrrrreen" (Simpsons) but actually, I'm not joking.
	🤖 6:05pm Bas NL: Hello Mark! Hello all!
	6:05pm The Butterman: High school teacher here, ask me anything about the effects of the hand held device on young people.
	🤖 6:05pm herb.nyc: Who’s raising the kids? Who’s on first?
	🤖 6:05pm Handy Haversack: ultradamno, David (up the Runzas!), Carmichael, Bas, Butterman, Miss G, all! Good to be here with you.
	🤖 6:06pm herb.nyc: Maybe by end of show joe will make Susan Linn the secretary of education.
	6:06pm ultradamno: Hiya Handy!
	🤖 6:08pm Bas NL: Hi Handy!
	6:08pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining in!
	🤖 6:08pm DjLorraine: Thanks Mark Hurst and Susan Linn for this topic of paramount importance
	6:08pm Mark Hurst: @The Butterman I'm interested to hear about your experience generally if you want to post it here or email me (mark at wfmu dot org)
	🤖 6:08pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtonicians!
	🤖 6:08pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Bas NL @6:08 Bas, is that Girls in Synthesis show in Utrecht this week? I'm jealous!
	6:10pm squidbeak: Fascinating stuff, I’ll send this show to my son, see what he thinks.
	🤖 6:10pm chresti: How about television screens and early brain development?
	6:10pm ultradamno: So these are babies that will marry their own cousins?
	🤖 6:11pm Bas NL: Hi Handy; no Girls in Synthesis was Nov 20th last year (great!!). I got The Cool Greenhouse on Wednesday and looking forward to that one!
	6:12pm Rolando: I have 4 kids, and it’s a real challenge dealing with technology and raising balanced kids, real people and friends are so important.
	6:13pm KWilde: I'll bet the engineer's kids don't use the devices
	🤖 6:13pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Friends! My great uncle, Bert Claster, who came up with Romper Room, said of Sesame Street: "It teaches kids how to watch commercials"
	🤖 6:13pm MarciB: I'm forever grateful to my forward-thinking mom who limited our TV exposure as kids back in the 60s + 70s. She was very concerned about the effects back then. And was horrified that her grandkids were given phones at age 8
	🤖 6:13pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Bas NL @6:11 Right! Cool Greenhouse! I think I'm even jealouser! This is what I get for living in a sleepy backwater like New York City.
	6:14pm Mark Hurst: ↳ chresti @6:10 Susan Linn wrote about kids & TV (among other topics) in her 2005 book "Consuming Kids: Protecting Our Children from the Onslaught of Marketing & Advertising."
	🤖 6:14pm Webhamster Henry: My tech family is clearly on the producing side of the production/consumption divide.
	6:15pm Mennlinn Rebarts: Saw M3GAN this weekend--definitely a good Big Tech parable, especially in respect to its effects on children.
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: ↳ MarciB @6:13 Cheers for your mom! Smart foresight.
	🤖 6:16pm Bas NL: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:13 NYC. Too much to choose from..
	🤖 6:16pm MarciB: I don't know how parents do it. We were allowed to read to our heart's content (actual print books) but screen time - not so much. But how do you handle that now? It must be a constant struggle...
	🤖 6:17pm Handy Haversack: I was ... not limited in terms of TV exposure after my mom died when I was six. My dad always complained that my one friend whose parents didn't let him watch TV would come over and want only to watch TV the whole time ...
	🤖 6:17pm MarciB: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:15 Thanks Mark. Mom was a feminist too!
	6:17pm David in London: It didn’t play Iggy Pop’s ‘I’m Bored’? Disappointing.
	6:18pm ultradamno: Well, at least it doesn't say "only boring people get bored"....that's just insufferable
	6:19pm Smacky: Corporate values have replaced democratic values...
	🤖 6:20pm herb.nyc: Consumption, capitalism,…oh boy is this a super hard problem.
	🤖 6:24pm Webhamster Henry: Nothing particularly new here, except for the increased voraciousness of the companies and the eye-gluing powers of the tech. Relevant reading from the past: en.wikipedia.org...
	6:24pm Juli: Yes exactky this rn
	6:25pm chris in the redwoods: love the ob/gyn pamphlet idea! will shop that one around... :)
	🤖 6:25pm Ken From Hyde Park: Goo evening, Mark and techtokinder!
	6:25pm Rolando: Schools somehow imagine the are the parent “loco parentus” and we have lost / loosing Chistian values, you get the desires of your heart, people choose money, so do businesses.
	6:26pm PolakSlovak: ↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25 Just about to say the same thing. What an excellent idea, pamphlet at the ob/gyn1
	🤖 6:26pm herb.nyc: (Aside- yest NPR Reveal program was about teaching kids to read. There’s bad methods out there)
	6:26pm Juli: A 14 year old killed herself this week due to TikTok bullying after she was beat up at school::the schools seem to care about bullying
	6:26pm sk8r2001: give the kids skateboards!
	6:27pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24 Much love for Jerry Mander. I read his "In the Absence of the Sacred" which also had a lot to say about TV in indigenous communities.
	🤖 6:27pm herb.nyc: ↳ Juli @6:26 Is this in NJ? I heard such a story yest
	6:27pm Juli: Seem to not care about bullying: the internet these days is so scary ppl are insane and online
	🤖 6:27pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24 But the difference in degree is significant, esp. in that decades of advertising and PR theory as well as neuroscience research are now deployed to fully gamify and addictify engagement with these devices -- and then monetize that engagement. What was bad a few decades ago when those kids whose families could afford one were sitting too close to the TV is a toxic blossom now, and they're giving the stuff away.
	🤖 6:27pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25 All the services wanted you to be completely dependent on their portal!
	6:28pm Miss G: I love the idea of pamphlets in the ob-gyn. (I have to say though, that so many dr's offices are scooped up by conglomerates, profit-making, and so then I sit there in the office watching a screen with "health tips" which are actually Big Pharma. . .)
	6:28pm Juli: ↳ herb.nyc @6:27 I didn;t see what state its in but it was national news:(
	🤖 6:28pm DjLorraine: ↳ herb.nyc @6:27 Yes NJ
	6:28pm Mark Hurst: ↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25 Let us all know if you get any interest - I agree, it's a worthy idea.
	6:28pm yippie: i like to play Math Rabbit
	🤖 6:29pm Handy Haversack: Bandcamp: An Epic Company
	🤖 6:29pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:27 I suppose the generation that was glued on TVs could only create even more addictive tech! "What are you talking about, this water?" -- a fish.
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:29 exactly
	6:30pm Juli: :::::: ;;;;; The issues in todays world are about bullying and being better than one another: this is the norm and ppl in power follow right along w what is cool:::they want to be cool" so they want money
	6:30pm Miss G: And thank you Susan Linn for speaking systemically instead of "blaming the parents." It's similar (to me) of people who 20 years ago gave me books of tips on how to reduce my energy consumption but when I would mention big hogs out there, they would say "well, what can you do. . ."
	6:31pm Smacky: School's now competition bootcamp
	6:32pm Lerch: It's so effing hard to navigate this stuff with kids. It makes me so disheartened.
	🤖 6:32pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:29 Well, I'd lay blame in a much narrower capitalist class who have decided on total extraction and growth at any cost as the only possible ethos. The "generations" making the tech are also workers and also exploited, just like munitions workers. I don't think there was anything inevitable about it -- except in that capitalism always reaches for its own telos: total monetization.
	6:32pm harangued: Why, Mark, are you repeating everything she is saying in her responses. She's perfectly clear. We understand her. Ask the next question instead. Please.
	6:32pm Rolando: I work with and often against teachers! They so readily buy into technology believing it will improve their teaching! I often have to bush back and say no!!!! I am very thankful to mark’s ideologies and ideas around this subject
	🤖 6:32pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ yippie @6:28 My son was trying to learn multiplication tables from Timez Attack, but instead, he got hooked on how it was doing its graphics (though Unity) and got into 3d Modeling and game writing on Unity, and we took him up to the the Unity Conference in Montreal at the age of 13.
	6:33pm chresti: Like old cereal ads on Saturday morning cartoons on tv-tell your mom to buy wheetios, etc
	🤖 6:33pm herb.nyc: ↳ Miss G @6:30 I clicked “very much agreed”
	6:34pm Juli: ↳ Lerch @6:32 I would be very abnormal w my children::not let them have social media talk to them daily about what life is and bullying and bringing them places to get them out of the house
	🤖 6:34pm DjLorraine: Super bowl ads involving promoting gambling and “shop like a billionaire“ were obvious. Ugh
	6:35pm yippie: when i was kid i always wondered how much Michael Jordan needed to pay to get his face on the wheeties box
	🤖 6:35pm Webhamster Henry: Were there any crypto ads at the SB this year?
	6:35pm Juli: ↳ DjLorraine @6:34 The media and the celebrities are guilty of a ending world:::the greed should not be seen as cool
	6:35pm PolakSlovak: Susan Linn's comment on soothing babies with devices really hits hard. On a bus one day, saw a mom play a crap dub-step version of "wheels on the bus," and kept repeating this song over, and over again the entire bus ride. It was clearly indoctrinating, and brainwashing the child that "this is good" (good music, good content, etc.). It's hard to witness this, such a helpless feeling.
	6:36pm The Butterman: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:08 Oh I sent ya a brief e-mail.
	6:37pm Juli: Teach the children programming and computer programs like photoshop::develop uniqueness: creativity: being different is GOOD: Others can eat it lol
	6:37pm Franco Twinkie: Excuse me for laughing. I just walked in the door, and the first thing I hear is some kids get to fly around on clouds and other kids have to trudge through the dirt!? Man, this whole thing is so fucked up. Monsters rule the world and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Oy, I need a nap.
	6:37pm Mark Hurst: ↳ The Butterman @6:36 thx!
	🤖 6:38pm herb.nyc: Good point- one feels annoyed when you call them and yr on yr cellphone. The Vanishing NY (?) author talked about that annoyed look when a person is walking and using a cellphone and yr in the way (yr not!)
	6:38pm Miss G: ↳ Franco Twinkie @6:37 laughing Franco Twinkie
	6:38pm The Butterman: Butterboy is NOT learning multiplication the old fashioned way, By just being bad at it.
	6:38pm Mark Hurst: ↳ herb.nyc @6:38 Yep one of my favorite parts of the Jeremiah Moss interview from 2019 - www.wfmu.org...
	6:39pm Juli: ↳ herb.nyc @6:38 I smile at ppl on the street. Imagine ppl were kind: maybe the world would be okay
	6:40pm Carmichael: The issue these days is the parenting. Young parents grew up with and still are glued to their cell phone. Hard to teach a child otherwise when you’re leading by example.
	6:40pm yippie: the first season of Mr Rogers is in black and white and he has Bruce haack come on with his musical computer. the kids were SUPER excited
	6:41pm Juli: ↳ Carmichael @6:40 the issue today is parenting and bullying:::all leads to greed
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1923: Hi Hi Hi Hi Hi
	6:42pm Juli: If ppl werent obsessed w money and were obsessed w life and each other instead
	🤖 6:43pm herb.nyc: I just pulled out my AD NAUSEUM- A SURVIVOR’s GUIDE TO AMERICAN CONSUMER CULTURE. maybe there’s education issues in table of contents. Edited by Carrie McLaren and Jason Torchinsky, 2009
	6:43pm StringOFperils: Good luck, big bad world. Time to read some music. Screen 0FF Thanks, Mark and Susan.
	6:43pm Miss G: Thank you Susan, I've shared about your org since it began. This is a great interview for parents who are on board, to share with let's say their family members, who say "wha?"
	6:43pm ultradamno: ↳ Juli @6:42 Still, when they are obsessed with money, a cell phone will help occupy the child when the parents ditch it at an airport check-in www.msn.com...
	6:44pm Bobby: Great interview
	6:45pm Miss G: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:00 psst HH off topic, way earlier we were talking about a film, I have to tell you that it is sort of terrible. But fun, if you have some friends over. I have to close my eyes five different ways to enjoy it)
	6:45pm wind: Great interview as usual! Ty Mark
	🤖 6:45pm herb.nyc: I’m gonna tell my neices and nephews and friends WITH children of this show. Wait, with or without kids- all should listen Oh. Other chapters? Part 2!!!
	🤖 6:45pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Miss G @6:45 Ha, gotcha! Finger to nose, wink!
	6:46pm PolakSlovak: Thank you Susan and thank you Mark. Incredible interview, on the edge of our seats the whole time. Truly, thank you!!
	🤖 6:46pm herb.nyc: Ah, that Campaigns for commercial-free… is in AD NAUSEUM book
	6:47pm Juli: ↳ ultradamno @6:43 Not even sure how to respond
	6:47pm Juli: I would never let me kid on Social Media
	6:49pm Miss G: I have to say though, that it's a social question. Back in the day, people my age swarmed to sign on to FB. And, I lost tons of friendly acquaintances, because I would not, and also play that farm game with them. But, do you think, I could in recent times say TOLDJA with Cambridge Analytica etc? No. Once again I'm the bad guy, too Holier Than Thou.
	🤖 6:49pm herb.nyc: “Maximal exploitation” sez mark. And to assuage their guilt, we can’t wait for zuck musk dorsey… to create charities
	6:50pm Miss G: YES MARK you GO!
	6:51pm joe mulligan: PREACH MARK!!!
	🤖 6:51pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Miss G @6:49 It's a very tricky social space to navigate. I finally have my friends turning off their smartphones when they come over to my place. I can't even imagine knowing how to approach the idea of talking to them about how they raise their kids vis-a-vis tech. I mean, I was raised by wolves and don't have the best social skills anyway, but I have absolutely zero clue how to start conversations like THAT.
	🤖 6:51pm Webhamster Henry: Yeah! These companies are trying to replace Joe Camel!
	🤖 6:52pm PaulRobeson1923: Buy a gun for yer son, right away sir! Place a weapon in his hand, let his little mind expand- for the skills he learns today will someday pay sir
	6:52pm wenzo: Really tempted to get the book for my brother & cousins who have kids but idk. I don’t wanna guilt trip them. I feel like they get this stuff but idk.
	6:53pm Quinn02: We paid for Prodegy for a few months. My kid bugged me for it. Didn’t teach anything. He was already good at math
	6:53pm Miss G: Here's one I saved July 2022 www.nytimes.com... A Cyberattack Illuminates the Shaky State of Student Privacy
	6:53pm joe mulligan: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:51 So true Henry. so many have completely forgotten Joe Camel.
	6:53pm brainiac: I'm going full Howard Beale
	6:53pm joe mulligan: There's a Joe Chemo page too. www.joechemo.org...
	🤖 6:54pm Handy Haversack: ↳ joe mulligan @6:53 Ouch.
	6:54pm Juli: ↳ wenzo @6:52 I posted things on social media::rarely do I bring up heavy things in person::: like on my own pages
	6:55pm Juli: ↳ wenzo @6:52 It doesnt win many friends lol
	🤖 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ joe mulligan @6:53 I'd walk a mile for a calomel! -- Chico Marx.
	🤖 6:55pm Handy Haversack: Thanks for another blazer, Mark! And thanks, Susan. Fantastic and important.
	6:56pm listener 126464: Great show, thanks Mark. Thanks Susan.
	6:56pm Feldy: Great topic today. Thanks Mark!
	🤖 6:56pm Handy Haversack: Mark's watch tells time! 'E's a witch! Burn 'im!
	6:57pm Miss G: Thanks again Mark Hurst and thank you Susan Linn will be buying your book in my independent Carytown book store. Thank you for the chat everyone!
	6:57pm DerekPaco: I listen to WFMU on my smart watch, my favourite piece of tech
	6:57pm wenzo: I didn’t know watches could tell time, when did this technology come out?!
	🤖 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: My friend's Apple watch freaks out when she waves her hands around.
	6:58pm korakorakora: In SF Kaiser does say that you should not introduce screens to your baby until after age 2, so it is not entirely out of the current conversation - my son is 1 and it is so hard to get people to understand why it is a big deal.
	6:58pm Hörer Christoph: I always do the same. Not telling people why you're on the phone is rude.
	🤖 6:58pm Webhamster Henry: I use WFMU to tell time.
	6:58pm DerekPaco: the only notifications I get on my watch are directions when I'm driving/cycling
	🤖 6:58pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark & Susan. Back to Pokémon Go!
	6:58pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark!
	6:58pm ultradamno: I have a swatch sistem 51....I wind it every day.
	6:59pm DerekPaco: oh wait, Siri keeps trying to help out when I'm teaching
	6:59pm mr 6: The victims of those fines don’t get the money so where does it go?
	🤖 7:00pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:58 Yeah, pretty much here too.
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	🤖 7:00pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:58 Same!
	🤖 7:01pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	🤖 7:01pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark!
	11:06pm ?: I want you to go to your window and shout: I'm mad as hell...

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 13, 2023

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Nov 25th, 6pm - 7pm: Technology we're thankful for (More info...)
Amidst all the headlines about predatory tech companies and misbehaving billionaires, we're taking a moment to remember that some tech is actually good. Drawing on listener submissions, Mark will discuss the tools, gadgets, and systemsthat people are genuinely thankful for.
Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic

February 13, 2023: Susan Linn, author, "Who's Raising the Kids?"

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: Susan Linn, author, “Who’s Raising the Kids? Big Tech, Big Business, and the Lives of Children”

• Who’s Raising the Kids?, by Susan Linn, published by The New Press (see also Indiebound)

• SusanLinn.net, author site

• Fair Play, originally called Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood (CCFC)

Related news articles

Epic Games to Pay $520 Million Over Children’s Privacy and Trickery Charges (by Natasha Singer, NYT, Dec 19, 2022): “The creator of Fortnite and other popular games violated children’s privacy and duped millions of users into unwanted purchases, federal regulators said.”

Children’s Groups Want F.T.C. to Ban ‘Unfair’ Online Manipulation of Kids (by Natasha Singer, NYT, Nov 17, 2022): “Children’s privacy and health experts pressed regulators to prohibit video games and social networks from using attention-hacking techniques on youngsters.”

How Google Took Over the Classroom (by Natasha Singer, NYT, May 13, 2017) – a classic article from 2017 covering Google's early foray into schools. “The tech giant is transforming public education with low-cost laptops and free apps. But schools may be giving Google more than they are getting.”

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PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Susan Linn, author, "Who's Raising the Kids? Big Tech, Big Business, and the Lives of Children"
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Susan Linn "Interview with Susan Linn"	0:04:05 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"	0:40:55 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Pink Tiles	Internet "Internet" by "Pink Tiles"	0:55:36 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	🤖 6:00pm Handy Haversack: Mark! Techyons! Wish K8 were here for this one. Very much an angle she constantly tries to take in her teaching, much to the chagrin, confusion, and denial of many of the educational powers that be.
	6:00pm David in London: Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonindergarteners!
	6:01pm Rolando: Greetings friends and earthlings
	6:01pm Miss G: HH, I'm sure you'll fill K8 in, with salient arrows for her quiver. My head is splitting but I know if I say "archive" it won't get done. Good evening Mark et al
	6:02pm Carmichael: Heya Markie Mark and His Techie Bunch.
	🤖 6:02pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Miss G @6:01 Fletchers, bowyers, and archers of justice! Or at least of loaf.
	6:03pm PolakSlovak: ↳ David in London @6:00 Hi David in London, also in London here! Happy to be listening live for once.
	6:04pm Miss G: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:02 and for "the chillllddddrrrreen" (Simpsons) but actually, I'm not joking.
	🤖 6:05pm Bas NL: Hello Mark! Hello all!
	6:05pm The Butterman: High school teacher here, ask me anything about the effects of the hand held device on young people.
	🤖 6:05pm herb.nyc: Who’s raising the kids? Who’s on first?
	🤖 6:05pm Handy Haversack: ultradamno, David (up the Runzas!), Carmichael, Bas, Butterman, Miss G, all! Good to be here with you.
	🤖 6:06pm herb.nyc: Maybe by end of show joe will make Susan Linn the secretary of education.
	6:06pm ultradamno: Hiya Handy!
	🤖 6:08pm Bas NL: Hi Handy!
	6:08pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining in!
	🤖 6:08pm DjLorraine: Thanks Mark Hurst and Susan Linn for this topic of paramount importance
	6:08pm Mark Hurst: @The Butterman I'm interested to hear about your experience generally if you want to post it here or email me (mark at wfmu dot org)
	🤖 6:08pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtonicians!
	🤖 6:08pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Bas NL @6:08 Bas, is that Girls in Synthesis show in Utrecht this week? I'm jealous!
	6:10pm squidbeak: Fascinating stuff, I’ll send this show to my son, see what he thinks.
	🤖 6:10pm chresti: How about television screens and early brain development?
	6:10pm ultradamno: So these are babies that will marry their own cousins?
	🤖 6:11pm Bas NL: Hi Handy; no Girls in Synthesis was Nov 20th last year (great!!). I got The Cool Greenhouse on Wednesday and looking forward to that one!
	6:12pm Rolando: I have 4 kids, and it’s a real challenge dealing with technology and raising balanced kids, real people and friends are so important.
	6:13pm KWilde: I'll bet the engineer's kids don't use the devices
	🤖 6:13pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Friends! My great uncle, Bert Claster, who came up with Romper Room, said of Sesame Street: "It teaches kids how to watch commercials"
	🤖 6:13pm MarciB: I'm forever grateful to my forward-thinking mom who limited our TV exposure as kids back in the 60s + 70s. She was very concerned about the effects back then. And was horrified that her grandkids were given phones at age 8
	🤖 6:13pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Bas NL @6:11 Right! Cool Greenhouse! I think I'm even jealouser! This is what I get for living in a sleepy backwater like New York City.
	6:14pm Mark Hurst: ↳ chresti @6:10 Susan Linn wrote about kids & TV (among other topics) in her 2005 book "Consuming Kids: Protecting Our Children from the Onslaught of Marketing & Advertising."
	🤖 6:14pm Webhamster Henry: My tech family is clearly on the producing side of the production/consumption divide.
	6:15pm Mennlinn Rebarts: Saw M3GAN this weekend--definitely a good Big Tech parable, especially in respect to its effects on children.
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: ↳ MarciB @6:13 Cheers for your mom! Smart foresight.
	🤖 6:16pm Bas NL: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:13 NYC. Too much to choose from..
	🤖 6:16pm MarciB: I don't know how parents do it. We were allowed to read to our heart's content (actual print books) but screen time - not so much. But how do you handle that now? It must be a constant struggle...
	🤖 6:17pm Handy Haversack: I was ... not limited in terms of TV exposure after my mom died when I was six. My dad always complained that my one friend whose parents didn't let him watch TV would come over and want only to watch TV the whole time ...
	🤖 6:17pm MarciB: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:15 Thanks Mark. Mom was a feminist too!
	6:17pm David in London: It didn’t play Iggy Pop’s ‘I’m Bored’? Disappointing.
	6:18pm ultradamno: Well, at least it doesn't say "only boring people get bored"....that's just insufferable
	6:19pm Smacky: Corporate values have replaced democratic values...
	🤖 6:20pm herb.nyc: Consumption, capitalism,…oh boy is this a super hard problem.
	🤖 6:24pm Webhamster Henry: Nothing particularly new here, except for the increased voraciousness of the companies and the eye-gluing powers of the tech. Relevant reading from the past: en.wikipedia.org...
	6:24pm Juli: Yes exactky this rn
	6:25pm chris in the redwoods: love the ob/gyn pamphlet idea! will shop that one around... :)
	🤖 6:25pm Ken From Hyde Park: Goo evening, Mark and techtokinder!
	6:25pm Rolando: Schools somehow imagine the are the parent “loco parentus” and we have lost / loosing Chistian values, you get the desires of your heart, people choose money, so do businesses.
	6:26pm PolakSlovak: ↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25 Just about to say the same thing. What an excellent idea, pamphlet at the ob/gyn1
	🤖 6:26pm herb.nyc: (Aside- yest NPR Reveal program was about teaching kids to read. There’s bad methods out there)
	6:26pm Juli: A 14 year old killed herself this week due to TikTok bullying after she was beat up at school::the schools seem to care about bullying
	6:26pm sk8r2001: give the kids skateboards!
	6:27pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24 Much love for Jerry Mander. I read his "In the Absence of the Sacred" which also had a lot to say about TV in indigenous communities.
	🤖 6:27pm herb.nyc: ↳ Juli @6:26 Is this in NJ? I heard such a story yest
	6:27pm Juli: Seem to not care about bullying: the internet these days is so scary ppl are insane and online
	🤖 6:27pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24 But the difference in degree is significant, esp. in that decades of advertising and PR theory as well as neuroscience research are now deployed to fully gamify and addictify engagement with these devices -- and then monetize that engagement. What was bad a few decades ago when those kids whose families could afford one were sitting too close to the TV is a toxic blossom now, and they're giving the stuff away.
	🤖 6:27pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25 All the services wanted you to be completely dependent on their portal!
	6:28pm Miss G: I love the idea of pamphlets in the ob-gyn. (I have to say though, that so many dr's offices are scooped up by conglomerates, profit-making, and so then I sit there in the office watching a screen with "health tips" which are actually Big Pharma. . .)
	6:28pm Juli: ↳ herb.nyc @6:27 I didn;t see what state its in but it was national news:(
	🤖 6:28pm DjLorraine: ↳ herb.nyc @6:27 Yes NJ
	6:28pm Mark Hurst: ↳ chris in the redwoods @6:25 Let us all know if you get any interest - I agree, it's a worthy idea.
	6:28pm yippie: i like to play Math Rabbit
	🤖 6:29pm Handy Haversack: Bandcamp: An Epic Company
	🤖 6:29pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:27 I suppose the generation that was glued on TVs could only create even more addictive tech! "What are you talking about, this water?" -- a fish.
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:29 exactly
	6:30pm Juli: :::::: ;;;;; The issues in todays world are about bullying and being better than one another: this is the norm and ppl in power follow right along w what is cool:::they want to be cool" so they want money
	6:30pm Miss G: And thank you Susan Linn for speaking systemically instead of "blaming the parents." It's similar (to me) of people who 20 years ago gave me books of tips on how to reduce my energy consumption but when I would mention big hogs out there, they would say "well, what can you do. . ."
	6:31pm Smacky: School's now competition bootcamp
	6:32pm Lerch: It's so effing hard to navigate this stuff with kids. It makes me so disheartened.
	🤖 6:32pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:29 Well, I'd lay blame in a much narrower capitalist class who have decided on total extraction and growth at any cost as the only possible ethos. The "generations" making the tech are also workers and also exploited, just like munitions workers. I don't think there was anything inevitable about it -- except in that capitalism always reaches for its own telos: total monetization.
	6:32pm harangued: Why, Mark, are you repeating everything she is saying in her responses. She's perfectly clear. We understand her. Ask the next question instead. Please.
	6:32pm Rolando: I work with and often against teachers! They so readily buy into technology believing it will improve their teaching! I often have to bush back and say no!!!! I am very thankful to mark’s ideologies and ideas around this subject
	🤖 6:32pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ yippie @6:28 My son was trying to learn multiplication tables from Timez Attack, but instead, he got hooked on how it was doing its graphics (though Unity) and got into 3d Modeling and game writing on Unity, and we took him up to the the Unity Conference in Montreal at the age of 13.
	6:33pm chresti: Like old cereal ads on Saturday morning cartoons on tv-tell your mom to buy wheetios, etc
	🤖 6:33pm herb.nyc: ↳ Miss G @6:30 I clicked “very much agreed”
	6:34pm Juli: ↳ Lerch @6:32 I would be very abnormal w my children::not let them have social media talk to them daily about what life is and bullying and bringing them places to get them out of the house
	🤖 6:34pm DjLorraine: Super bowl ads involving promoting gambling and “shop like a billionaire“ were obvious. Ugh
	6:35pm yippie: when i was kid i always wondered how much Michael Jordan needed to pay to get his face on the wheeties box
	🤖 6:35pm Webhamster Henry: Were there any crypto ads at the SB this year?
	6:35pm Juli: ↳ DjLorraine @6:34 The media and the celebrities are guilty of a ending world:::the greed should not be seen as cool
	6:35pm PolakSlovak: Susan Linn's comment on soothing babies with devices really hits hard. On a bus one day, saw a mom play a crap dub-step version of "wheels on the bus," and kept repeating this song over, and over again the entire bus ride. It was clearly indoctrinating, and brainwashing the child that "this is good" (good music, good content, etc.). It's hard to witness this, such a helpless feeling.
	6:36pm The Butterman: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:08 Oh I sent ya a brief e-mail.
	6:37pm Juli: Teach the children programming and computer programs like photoshop::develop uniqueness: creativity: being different is GOOD: Others can eat it lol
	6:37pm Franco Twinkie: Excuse me for laughing. I just walked in the door, and the first thing I hear is some kids get to fly around on clouds and other kids have to trudge through the dirt!? Man, this whole thing is so fucked up. Monsters rule the world and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Oy, I need a nap.
	6:37pm Mark Hurst: ↳ The Butterman @6:36 thx!
	🤖 6:38pm herb.nyc: Good point- one feels annoyed when you call them and yr on yr cellphone. The Vanishing NY (?) author talked about that annoyed look when a person is walking and using a cellphone and yr in the way (yr not!)
	6:38pm Miss G: ↳ Franco Twinkie @6:37 laughing Franco Twinkie
	6:38pm The Butterman: Butterboy is NOT learning multiplication the old fashioned way, By just being bad at it.
	6:38pm Mark Hurst: ↳ herb.nyc @6:38 Yep one of my favorite parts of the Jeremiah Moss interview from 2019 - www.wfmu.org...
	6:39pm Juli: ↳ herb.nyc @6:38 I smile at ppl on the street. Imagine ppl were kind: maybe the world would be okay
	6:40pm Carmichael: The issue these days is the parenting. Young parents grew up with and still are glued to their cell phone. Hard to teach a child otherwise when you’re leading by example.
	6:40pm yippie: the first season of Mr Rogers is in black and white and he has Bruce haack come on with his musical computer. the kids were SUPER excited
	6:41pm Juli: ↳ Carmichael @6:40 the issue today is parenting and bullying:::all leads to greed
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1923: Hi Hi Hi Hi Hi
	6:42pm Juli: If ppl werent obsessed w money and were obsessed w life and each other instead
	🤖 6:43pm herb.nyc: I just pulled out my AD NAUSEUM- A SURVIVOR’s GUIDE TO AMERICAN CONSUMER CULTURE. maybe there’s education issues in table of contents. Edited by Carrie McLaren and Jason Torchinsky, 2009
	6:43pm StringOFperils: Good luck, big bad world. Time to read some music. Screen 0FF Thanks, Mark and Susan.
	6:43pm Miss G: Thank you Susan, I've shared about your org since it began. This is a great interview for parents who are on board, to share with let's say their family members, who say "wha?"
	6:43pm ultradamno: ↳ Juli @6:42 Still, when they are obsessed with money, a cell phone will help occupy the child when the parents ditch it at an airport check-in www.msn.com...
	6:44pm Bobby: Great interview
	6:45pm Miss G: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:00 psst HH off topic, way earlier we were talking about a film, I have to tell you that it is sort of terrible. But fun, if you have some friends over. I have to close my eyes five different ways to enjoy it)
	6:45pm wind: Great interview as usual! Ty Mark
	🤖 6:45pm herb.nyc: I’m gonna tell my neices and nephews and friends WITH children of this show. Wait, with or without kids- all should listen Oh. Other chapters? Part 2!!!
	🤖 6:45pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Miss G @6:45 Ha, gotcha! Finger to nose, wink!
	6:46pm PolakSlovak: Thank you Susan and thank you Mark. Incredible interview, on the edge of our seats the whole time. Truly, thank you!!
	🤖 6:46pm herb.nyc: Ah, that Campaigns for commercial-free… is in AD NAUSEUM book
	6:47pm Juli: ↳ ultradamno @6:43 Not even sure how to respond
	6:47pm Juli: I would never let me kid on Social Media
	6:49pm Miss G: I have to say though, that it's a social question. Back in the day, people my age swarmed to sign on to FB. And, I lost tons of friendly acquaintances, because I would not, and also play that farm game with them. But, do you think, I could in recent times say TOLDJA with Cambridge Analytica etc? No. Once again I'm the bad guy, too Holier Than Thou.
	🤖 6:49pm herb.nyc: “Maximal exploitation” sez mark. And to assuage their guilt, we can’t wait for zuck musk dorsey… to create charities
	6:50pm Miss G: YES MARK you GO!
	6:51pm joe mulligan: PREACH MARK!!!
	🤖 6:51pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Miss G @6:49 It's a very tricky social space to navigate. I finally have my friends turning off their smartphones when they come over to my place. I can't even imagine knowing how to approach the idea of talking to them about how they raise their kids vis-a-vis tech. I mean, I was raised by wolves and don't have the best social skills anyway, but I have absolutely zero clue how to start conversations like THAT.
	🤖 6:51pm Webhamster Henry: Yeah! These companies are trying to replace Joe Camel!
	🤖 6:52pm PaulRobeson1923: Buy a gun for yer son, right away sir! Place a weapon in his hand, let his little mind expand- for the skills he learns today will someday pay sir
	6:52pm wenzo: Really tempted to get the book for my brother & cousins who have kids but idk. I don’t wanna guilt trip them. I feel like they get this stuff but idk.
	6:53pm Quinn02: We paid for Prodegy for a few months. My kid bugged me for it. Didn’t teach anything. He was already good at math
	6:53pm Miss G: Here's one I saved July 2022 www.nytimes.com... A Cyberattack Illuminates the Shaky State of Student Privacy
	6:53pm joe mulligan: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:51 So true Henry. so many have completely forgotten Joe Camel.
	6:53pm brainiac: I'm going full Howard Beale
	6:53pm joe mulligan: There's a Joe Chemo page too. www.joechemo.org...
	🤖 6:54pm Handy Haversack: ↳ joe mulligan @6:53 Ouch.
	6:54pm Juli: ↳ wenzo @6:52 I posted things on social media::rarely do I bring up heavy things in person::: like on my own pages
	6:55pm Juli: ↳ wenzo @6:52 It doesnt win many friends lol
	🤖 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ joe mulligan @6:53 I'd walk a mile for a calomel! -- Chico Marx.
	🤖 6:55pm Handy Haversack: Thanks for another blazer, Mark! And thanks, Susan. Fantastic and important.
	6:56pm listener 126464: Great show, thanks Mark. Thanks Susan.
	6:56pm Feldy: Great topic today. Thanks Mark!
	🤖 6:56pm Handy Haversack: Mark's watch tells time! 'E's a witch! Burn 'im!
	6:57pm Miss G: Thanks again Mark Hurst and thank you Susan Linn will be buying your book in my independent Carytown book store. Thank you for the chat everyone!
	6:57pm DerekPaco: I listen to WFMU on my smart watch, my favourite piece of tech
	6:57pm wenzo: I didn’t know watches could tell time, when did this technology come out?!
	🤖 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: My friend's Apple watch freaks out when she waves her hands around.
	6:58pm korakorakora: In SF Kaiser does say that you should not introduce screens to your baby until after age 2, so it is not entirely out of the current conversation - my son is 1 and it is so hard to get people to understand why it is a big deal.
	6:58pm Hörer Christoph: I always do the same. Not telling people why you're on the phone is rude.
	🤖 6:58pm Webhamster Henry: I use WFMU to tell time.
	6:58pm DerekPaco: the only notifications I get on my watch are directions when I'm driving/cycling
	🤖 6:58pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark & Susan. Back to Pokémon Go!
	6:58pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark!
	6:58pm ultradamno: I have a swatch sistem 51....I wind it every day.
	6:59pm DerekPaco: oh wait, Siri keeps trying to help out when I'm teaching
	6:59pm mr 6: The victims of those fines don’t get the money so where does it go?
	🤖 7:00pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:58 Yeah, pretty much here too.
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	🤖 7:00pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:58 Same!
	🤖 7:01pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	🤖 7:01pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark!
	11:06pm ?: I want you to go to your window and shout: I'm mad as hell...

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 13, 2023

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