WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from January 13, 2025

Listener comments!
	5:51pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtools!
	🤖 5:59pm Handy Haversack: Mark! Techyons! We making Steve Guttenberg a star?
	6:00pm ?: ↳ Handy Haversack @5:59 as long as he's not selling bibles anymore
	🤖 6:01pm Ken From Hyde Park: Who keeps the metric system down? We do! We do!
	🤖 6:01pm Will thee SG OCNY: Good evening Mark Hurst and all!!!
	6:01pm Fredericks: How about that A.I.? Huh?
	6:01pm Spikey BXL: Hi Mark, luddites
	🤖 6:01pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Hi all! Chisels at a ready!
	6:02pm Fredericks: ↳ Bas NL @6:01 I have a screwdriver. And a flashlight.
	6:02pm Spikey BXL: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:01 Step back 3,5 metres
	🤖 6:03pm newton: Im not really here, have a meeting in half an hour and need to understand this stuff, but want to be here, used to be a stone carver, not quite like the cutters in Breaking Away
	6:04pm joe_rosevear: Hello, Mark and everyone!
	6:04pm Mark T: Good evening Mark
	🤖 6:05pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ Spikey BXL @6:02 It's not me. It's the Stonecutters! www.frinkiac.com...
	6:05pm ultradamno: I will say this for AI, it improved La La Land mastodon.social...
	🤖 6:06pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtonicians!
	6:06pm Spikey BXL: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:05 Simpsons prophecy. Resistance is futile
	🤖 6:06pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Spikey BXL @6:06 But nonresistance is feudal.
	6:07pm GC in Bmore: Hi, I’m on the bus.
	6:07pm queems: yoooo i got swindled by ai music on youtube today. had it on for 15 mins before i was like “there’s something weird about this”
	6:08pm mackeral: hey folks!
	🤖 6:08pm Handy Haversack: ↳ queems @6:07 You were already lost once you were on YouTube!
	🤖 6:08pm PaulRobeson1925: Hi Hi Hi
	🤖 6:09pm Deano de los Muertos: Hey Mark and folx
	6:09pm carlos danger: This guy is complete fucking moron.
	6:09pm Levi: this guy knows nothing about making music
	🤖 6:09pm spacecadet: oh wow I am already disgusted by this guy
	6:09pm mackeral: this guy is pathetic
	6:09pm MJ Turner: Yikes
	6:09pm Levi: the process is beautiful
	6:10pm maurer: omg. this suno guy is just getting asked to be punched in the face.
	6:10pm queems: @handy i was looking for 1940s hawaiian music compilations to purchase later, turns out those are tricky to find
	6:10pm Spikey BXL: Dross is bliss. Not for me, Clive.
	6:11pm Cassettivity: I think he's been brainwashed by his own creation
	🤖 6:11pm Handy Haversack: ↳ queems @6:10 Huh! Now I want to look too.
	🤖 6:13pm herb.nyc: Stone carving- those that can, do. Those that can’t (hi mark), interview stonecarvers
	🤖 6:13pm Bas NL: I'll have respect for AI once it flat out refuses to produce music.
	6:14pm Matt en Queens: I’m going there on Thursday! Had to head up there anyway so adding a cathedral visit
	6:14pm Carmichael: ↳ Cassettivity @6:11 "Music is too hard, and it takes too long." Dickweed ...
	🤖 6:14pm DjLorraine: Pillars of the Earth spoke of stone carving
	6:15pm Spikey BXL: Ears open, eyes closed. Europe is saving the cathedral from the 🛌. Thanks Mark.
	🤖 6:15pm herb.nyc: ↳ carlos danger @6:09 Hey, were you a member of Interpol (either one)?
	🤖 6:17pm tim: Hey Mark and crew!
	🤖 6:17pm Deano de los Muertos: Love these guests mark.
	🤖 6:18pm Handy Haversack: ↳ tim @6:17 Hey, Tim! Are you coming for Marathon this year?
	6:18pm joe mulligan: music, like visual arts is the truest form of human expression/emotions. giving humans robots to do the job? meh.
	🤖 6:19pm Handy Haversack: I'm editing a sociological book on glassblowing and glassblowers right now that has a lot of interesting things to say on the culture of making.
	6:19pm Barney Grubbs: one of my mom’s uncles was a stone carver in Derry—he apparently got to rebuild the stonework on the front of the Derry Guildhall a bunch of times in the early 70s
	6:20pm queems: glass blowing is one of the hardest things i’ve ever done
	🤖 6:21pm Ken From Hyde Park: If you find a stone carving and the hands have extra fingers, it's likely it was carved by AI.
	6:21pm joe mulligan: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:19 I used to discuss with my friends the desire to live in cities/neighborhoods with people creating art, but so many people are consumers of art rather than producers of art
	🤖 6:22pm Deano de los Muertos: don’t forget meat 😉
	6:22pm Cassettivity: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:19 one of my faves related to that was when i was interviewing a glass friend about this concept (making) and he pointed out how there is this italian guy who makes the best tools, and they are all slightly 'off' because they take into account the way your hand changes the tool once you manipulate it.
	🤖 6:23pm tim: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:18 Hey Handy! Unfortunately not. I'm trying to save up vacation time for a couple MI trips with the kids this summer.
	6:23pm Barney Grubbs: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:19 oh cool—does it get into scientific glass blowers at all? used to be most academic chemistry departments had a glass blower. Now if you’re lucky there’s an itinerant old guy who occasionally drops by to pick up broken glassware.
	6:24pm joe mulligan: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:21 and also what's up with all the fake written words? on the other hand it's still an easy way to sniff out fake AI
	🤖 6:24pm Webhamster Henry: Hey I think that idiot is from s Spotify, not Suno!
	6:25pm coelacanth∅: "progress" is very often not progress.
	🤖 6:25pm Webhamster Henry: Stone is fun! Soapstone is really soft.
	🤖 6:26pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24 Oh I guess it's also Suno's attitude too!
	🤖 6:26pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Barney Grubbs @6:23 No, set in the studio in Brooklyn. I have a friend whose wife is a glass scientist for Corning!
	🤖 6:26pm tim: 'Hard work' in sports is noble. Hard work in the rest of life is suckers.
	6:26pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:25 and somewhat more forgiving than wood
	🤖 6:26pm Deano de los Muertos: might be resharing a quote I heard from here but “I don’t want AI to make my art and music so I have time do dishes and laundry….i want AI to do my dishes and laundry so i have time to make art and music”
	🤖 6:27pm Webhamster Henry: Hard work means you need better tools.
	6:27pm ultradamno: He goes by Mikey, apparently www.thetwentyminutevc.com...
	🤖 6:27pm newton: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:25 alabaster too
	6:27pm Cassettivity: we need flow state to be happy!
	6:28pm The Oscar: Busy making dinner, but I just want to say this is a really lovely show. I love hearing people talk about doing things they love.
	🤖 6:28pm Webhamster Henry: Sure we coders zone in, but not having to fix up glue code and research what someone in an external library changes would be great.
	6:29pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Deano de los Muertos @6:26 i like the quote; but to me, dishes and laundry are just other meditations
	6:29pm mackeral: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:29 agreed
	🤖 6:30pm herb.nyc: Chris P sez “I realized I worked 8hr days on and on…”(paraphrased). I can relate. I used to do a zine and back in 1987(?), I used 3,4 vacation days but went to the office (empty, it was summer at a college). I used the computer and copier, then actually cut and pasted paper. It felt great! (I will submit for LCD. anyone else?)
	6:30pm mackeral: all the time saved... it won't be spent in some dream of leisure. we need to get over this.
	🤖 6:30pm PaulRobeson1925: Pretty soon Robo will take the hard, hard job of soldiering too
	🤖 6:30pm Deano de los Muertos: they’ve brought a Puma slicer into my dept in the last year or so..it usually just fucks up the meat
	🤖 6:31pm Deano de los Muertos: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:29 some chores are for me. Not those.
	🤖 6:31pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ Cassettivity @6:27 I agree! Very true with playing sports as a team
	🤖 6:32pm chresti: So what are the replaced craftspeople supposed to do? Doesn't anyone think this through?
	6:33pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Deano de los Muertos @6:31 cleaning, in general! -sort of a meditation, but about the last form of meditation i'd choose, if i could choose!
	🤖 6:33pm PaulRobeson1925: The way Mark just described this- Humans come in and finish making the art- could be said about making war
	6:33pm sunshine moonshine: Thank you for this show! Hand work! I make "art" with knife, wood, cloths, fibers, found objects and feel very alone in this modern world. SO happy to hear your show.
	6:34pm sunshine moonshine: The experience! yes, carving is life!
	6:34pm Henry Hudson's Distant Relative: "Who asked for it?" Exactly! I saw the same installation at MoMA as the caller, and had the same thought.
	🤖 6:35pm herb.nyc: If you look at St. John’s cathedral, visit city college of New York- 137th st and convent ave. Lotsa gothic bldgs and lovely gargoyles
	🤖 6:35pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ chresti @6:32 Marx's could not figure that out. Took him 2000 pages and he could not figure that part
	🤖 6:35pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:35 He was wrong about people. Right about machines
	6:36pm mackeral: these "conversations" very clearly separate those who understand Art from those who don't. Those who can hope to be enriched by Art, and those who never will.
	6:36pm StringOFperils: ↳ chresti @6:32 The Israeli historian Yuval Harari has written about this. He predicts an enormous global 'unemployable class' in the near future.
	6:36pm Rick G: The process more than the product, yes! It’s why I write frequently mediocre poetry, ha.
	6:36pm Ed: Great ep! Who asked for this stuff?!
	6:36pm Barney Grubbs: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:26 they know what they’re doing up there!
	6:37pm mackeral: ↳ StringOFperils @6:36 yes. Wall-E. the unemployables crowing for their next bingeworthy series
	🤖 6:37pm PaulRobeson1925: I don’t get art!
	🤖 6:37pm Deano de los Muertos: ↳ chresti @6:32 unfortunately there’s a very low interest in young people in trades, so Chris’ enthusiasm in teaching is good to generate interest. But yeah, existing tradesmen..”who cares” right?
	6:38pm StringOFperils: ↳ mackeral @6:37 Completely not understood.
	6:38pm Marie Chicago: Hey, really enjoying the show. Glad to hear your syndication is increasing so that these ideas get heard by more people. Thanks, Mark (and FMU)
	6:38pm Dano59: "only the lucky few" - true dat. Jenny Holzer put a finer, provocative point on it - "People who don't work with their hands are parasites"
	6:39pm coelacanth∅: ↳ mackeral @6:36 indeed. and unfortunately it seems the majority of people who are focused on money &/or power are in the "never will" group.
	6:39pm Cassettivity: ↳ chresti @6:32 become passive consumers, just as we've been slowly been doing for hundreds of years... until we are pure consumer...
	6:39pm Dano59: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:37 ... what's to get?
	6:39pm joe mulligan: for a long time my guitarist friend put down my interest in electronic music since it wasn't hands-on like the guitar. isn't AI just one step further than electronic music?
	6:40pm Cassettivity: ↳ joe mulligan @6:39 did they play electric or acoustic lol
	🤖 6:40pm Webhamster Henry: I think decades ago there was a service that would make a 3d scan of your face and carve it!
	6:40pm joe mulligan: ↳ Cassettivity @6:40 electric hahahahaha!!!!
	6:40pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Dano59 @6:38 not necessarily but usually
	6:41pm Dano59: i just saw a suggestion to keep AI content out of your search results - which is good, because dumb is the baseline on the internet. add "-ai" after your query/keywords
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ Dano59 @6:39 Artistic vision!!! What IT IS IT I don’t get art!
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: IT’S invisible!
	6:42pm mackeral: art "happens" between the creator and the experiencer. when we don't put in the hard work, as a creator, when we don't take that vocation seriously, the end product is disposable. The kite doesn't fly.
	6:43pm Fredericks: ↳ queems @6:07 Really? Freaky.
	6:43pm coelacanth∅: ↳ joe mulligan @6:39 "isn't AI just one step further than electronic music?" i will say no. it's not related to creativity, as good electronic music is.
	6:43pm StringOFperils: AI potentially will move away from humanity entirely, and very rapidly if, as described, it becomes exponentially more intelligent than human beings very rapidly. It will require all the resources it 'desires', and I don't see how it will require flesh, unless it converts it to energy.
	6:44pm joe mulligan: what about pop art and modern art etc.? does art need to be hard and difficult just to be art? or can it be a wild and beautiful expression that is simply in someone's mind?
	6:44pm ultradamno: How is electronic music not hands on? That's just silly.
	🤖 6:44pm PaulRobeson1925: Good answer
	🤖 6:44pm chresti: ↳ Cassettivity @6:39 How do they make a living to pay for what they consume? Pushing buttons?
	6:45pm Dano59: ↳ Dano59 @6:41 or maybe "-ai" isn't it. Google doesn't let you diisable it, but you can set web parameters to filter out AI overview results by adding “udm=14” The default is always costly/annoying/evil. (and I know, Get Off G-----!"
	6:46pm joe mulligan: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:43 fair enough, but what if it comes down to good and beautiful prompts rather than the challenge of knowing how to use ProTools? isn't ProTools just a more cumbersome AI?
	6:47pm wenzo: Really enjoying this chat! As someone who’s worked with my hands making sculptures & other things in the past this is resonating.
	6:47pm Dano59: ↳ herb.nyc @6:30 working on my submittable, Herb.
	🤖 6:48pm Ken From Hyde Park: According to ads on TV, if something is hard, order crap from Amazon to make it easier.
	6:48pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Dano59 @6:45 i don't use gobble, so it's not an issue on my laptops; but i need a new phone and refuse to buy one that has it preinstalled, or can't be "unistalled"...and i cannot find one. or a good one,anyway.
	6:48pm StringOFperils: Automation is not AI. AI is consciousness, not traditionally born of naturally evolving DNA. AI is very potentially your replacement. You may be one of the last generations of homo sapiens.
	6:48pm Persimmon: Does anyone else think that Chris sounds like Dave Mandl?
	🤖 6:48pm PaulRobeson1925: Hey kid. play sports because you will learn sportsmanship and in turn this will make you a good citizen and healthy. Good Sportsmanship is good for society
	🤖 6:49pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:48 T-Ball for health and not for the major leagues- great answer
	6:50pm Marie Chicago: Ireland already has a museum devoted to farming techniques and tools that were still being used in the 50s
	6:51pm Dano59: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:48 yes, again, the default is foisted on us.
	🤖 6:51pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:49 Fairness, respect & a sense of fellowship
	6:51pm coelacanth∅: ↳ joe mulligan @6:46 i don't know anything about pro-tools; but what you're saying reminds me of something like a keyboard that has preset rhythms, riffs and fills...they can be arranged to make something interesting, but the end result cannot honestly be called an original creation.
	6:52pm Marie Chicago: I love that analogy
	6:52pm StringOFperils: What you want may not be an issue with respect to this development.
	🤖 6:53pm PaulRobeson1925: 100,000 years of eating natural foods. And now we have the ability make food products and in turn make millions of our countrymen sick with diabetes and obesity
	6:54pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Dano59 @6:51 yes, i ask if it can be uninstalled and i get crickets. nobody else ever suggests such a thing, i guess.
	6:54pm Cassettivity: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:53 lol but we also wouldnt be able to feed 8.2B people if it was full of those lovely farms in VT where the cows have their own hot tubs.
	6:55pm Dano59: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:54 yeah, how dare you!
	6:55pm Matt en Queens: This has been an excellent interview with excellent interviewees. Makes look forward to visiting the cathedral in the Bronx more
	6:56pm Dean: Here at the university where I work we occasionally see a stone carver adding names to a stone wall of donors, etc. It is fascinating to observe. Stone carving might be one of the very few enterprises in which the products of our labor are not entirely alienated from us.
	🤖 6:56pm chresti: With _rump in office, gold leafing should be in high demand
	6:57pm ultradamno: And not here
	6:57pm joe mulligan: what if person 1 makes a song from one prompt. but person 2 makes a very elaborate complex musical masterpiece from 350 refined prompts?
	6:57pm mackeral: Irwin!
	🤖 6:57pm Deano de los Muertos: I forgot Irwin was covering too
	🤖 6:57pm chresti: Thanks Mark and guests!
	6:57pm Dano59: ↳ chresti @6:56 ... nah, not tacky enuff
	🤖 6:57pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ Cassettivity @6:54 I’m talking about sugar and man made fats, baby. Man made food stuffs. BHT TBHQ food products that are allowed in America that are not allowed in the EU. I’m not sure how to feed 8 Billion people!!? Rice? Canadian hot house tomatoes? Oats?
	6:57pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark! Thanks Chris and Arissa!
	6:58pm Dano59: 'Mr. Natural Does the Dishes' is a favorite of working artists
	6:58pm Mister Dobalina: Thanks, Mark.
	🤖 6:58pm Deano de los Muertos: Thanks Mark, Chris, and Ariana! Great show!
	6:58pm joe_rosevear: Well, hmmm, there is something to be said for cleverness.
	🤖 6:58pm Deano de los Muertos: *Arissa
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks guests!
	6:58pm joe_rosevear: But, it was a great show.
	6:58pm bleubombersune: Mark great interview thanks
	6:59pm jimphis: Great show! Very inspiring
	6:59pm full_english_breakfast: great show, great guests, thanks mark!
	6:59pm Mister Dobalina: Dan B. a gem.
	6:59pm joe mulligan: thanks for the discussion all, great show Mark! thanks for your thoughts Chris
	🤖 6:59pm PaulRobeson1925: Thanks Mark and guests! And it stoned me
	🤖 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: Stone cold great show tonight, Mark & guests!
	7:00pm StringOFperils: And there was darkness upon the water...
	🤖 7:00pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark, Carvers!
	🤖 7:00pm Will thee SG OCNY: Thank you Mark!!!
	7:01pm joe_rosevear: But I would not feel so all alone, everybody must get stoned!
	7:05pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from January 13, 2025

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Jan 20th, 6pm - 7pm: Kirk Pearson, author, "Electronic Music From Scratch" (More info...)
Kirk Pearson's new book, "Electronic Music From Scratch," describes how to make "homegrown audio gizmos," including the world's simplest speaker and a fully functioning synthesizer. Kirk and Mark discuss the benefits of making your own technology, celebrating creativity, and avoiding the soul-sucking platforms from Big Tech.

January 13, 2025: Stone carvers Chris Pellettieri and Arissa Ramoutar

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Above: A student at the Pellettieri Stone Carvers' Academy

Today: Stone carvers Chris Pellettieri and Arissa Ramoutar

Chris Pellettieri founded his Stone Carvers' Academy to teach people how to shape stone with hand tools rather than robotic systems. Chris and his student Arissa Ramoutar join Mark for an in-studio chat about why robots can't match what human hands can create.

• Pellettieri Stone Carvers’ Academy

• stonecarving.us, Chris Pellettieri's website

• Robots chisel out the future of sculpture as some artists embrace change and others push back (60 Minutes, Nov 10, 2024)

• Harry Stebbings, host, interviewing Mike Shulman, Co-founder of Suno, on the 20VC podcast (Jan 10, 2025). Here's the fully-surveilled YouTube link.

Sign up to get Mark’s weekly email newsletter.

Follow Mark on Bluesky or Mastodon.

PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: If you use an open podcast player reader, here’s an RSS feed. If you have to use a Big Tech podcast app, here’s Techtonic on iTunes.

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Stone carvers Chris Pellettieri and Arissa Ramoutar on art made by humans, not AI
Tomaš Dvořák	Gameboy Tune "Gameboy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Interview with Chris Pellettieri and Arissa Ramoutar
Horace Ferguson	Great Stone "Great Stone" by "Horace Ferguson"	0:54:14 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

RSS feeds for Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlists feed | MP3 archives feed

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Listener comments!
	5:51pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtools!
	🤖 5:59pm Handy Haversack: Mark! Techyons! We making Steve Guttenberg a star?
	6:00pm ?: ↳ Handy Haversack @5:59 as long as he's not selling bibles anymore
	🤖 6:01pm Ken From Hyde Park: Who keeps the metric system down? We do! We do!
	🤖 6:01pm Will thee SG OCNY: Good evening Mark Hurst and all!!!
	6:01pm Fredericks: How about that A.I.? Huh?
	6:01pm Spikey BXL: Hi Mark, luddites
	🤖 6:01pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Hi all! Chisels at a ready!
	6:02pm Fredericks: ↳ Bas NL @6:01 I have a screwdriver. And a flashlight.
	6:02pm Spikey BXL: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:01 Step back 3,5 metres
	🤖 6:03pm newton: Im not really here, have a meeting in half an hour and need to understand this stuff, but want to be here, used to be a stone carver, not quite like the cutters in Breaking Away
	6:04pm joe_rosevear: Hello, Mark and everyone!
	6:04pm Mark T: Good evening Mark
	🤖 6:05pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ Spikey BXL @6:02 It's not me. It's the Stonecutters! www.frinkiac.com...
	6:05pm ultradamno: I will say this for AI, it improved La La Land mastodon.social...
	🤖 6:06pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtonicians!
	6:06pm Spikey BXL: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:05 Simpsons prophecy. Resistance is futile
	🤖 6:06pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Spikey BXL @6:06 But nonresistance is feudal.
	6:07pm GC in Bmore: Hi, I’m on the bus.
	6:07pm queems: yoooo i got swindled by ai music on youtube today. had it on for 15 mins before i was like “there’s something weird about this”
	6:08pm mackeral: hey folks!
	🤖 6:08pm Handy Haversack: ↳ queems @6:07 You were already lost once you were on YouTube!
	🤖 6:08pm PaulRobeson1925: Hi Hi Hi
	🤖 6:09pm Deano de los Muertos: Hey Mark and folx
	6:09pm carlos danger: This guy is complete fucking moron.
	6:09pm Levi: this guy knows nothing about making music
	🤖 6:09pm spacecadet: oh wow I am already disgusted by this guy
	6:09pm mackeral: this guy is pathetic
	6:09pm MJ Turner: Yikes
	6:09pm Levi: the process is beautiful
	6:10pm maurer: omg. this suno guy is just getting asked to be punched in the face.
	6:10pm queems: @handy i was looking for 1940s hawaiian music compilations to purchase later, turns out those are tricky to find
	6:10pm Spikey BXL: Dross is bliss. Not for me, Clive.
	6:11pm Cassettivity: I think he's been brainwashed by his own creation
	🤖 6:11pm Handy Haversack: ↳ queems @6:10 Huh! Now I want to look too.
	🤖 6:13pm herb.nyc: Stone carving- those that can, do. Those that can’t (hi mark), interview stonecarvers
	🤖 6:13pm Bas NL: I'll have respect for AI once it flat out refuses to produce music.
	6:14pm Matt en Queens: I’m going there on Thursday! Had to head up there anyway so adding a cathedral visit
	6:14pm Carmichael: ↳ Cassettivity @6:11 "Music is too hard, and it takes too long." Dickweed ...
	🤖 6:14pm DjLorraine: Pillars of the Earth spoke of stone carving
	6:15pm Spikey BXL: Ears open, eyes closed. Europe is saving the cathedral from the 🛌. Thanks Mark.
	🤖 6:15pm herb.nyc: ↳ carlos danger @6:09 Hey, were you a member of Interpol (either one)?
	🤖 6:17pm tim: Hey Mark and crew!
	🤖 6:17pm Deano de los Muertos: Love these guests mark.
	🤖 6:18pm Handy Haversack: ↳ tim @6:17 Hey, Tim! Are you coming for Marathon this year?
	6:18pm joe mulligan: music, like visual arts is the truest form of human expression/emotions. giving humans robots to do the job? meh.
	🤖 6:19pm Handy Haversack: I'm editing a sociological book on glassblowing and glassblowers right now that has a lot of interesting things to say on the culture of making.
	6:19pm Barney Grubbs: one of my mom’s uncles was a stone carver in Derry—he apparently got to rebuild the stonework on the front of the Derry Guildhall a bunch of times in the early 70s
	6:20pm queems: glass blowing is one of the hardest things i’ve ever done
	🤖 6:21pm Ken From Hyde Park: If you find a stone carving and the hands have extra fingers, it's likely it was carved by AI.
	6:21pm joe mulligan: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:19 I used to discuss with my friends the desire to live in cities/neighborhoods with people creating art, but so many people are consumers of art rather than producers of art
	🤖 6:22pm Deano de los Muertos: don’t forget meat 😉
	6:22pm Cassettivity: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:19 one of my faves related to that was when i was interviewing a glass friend about this concept (making) and he pointed out how there is this italian guy who makes the best tools, and they are all slightly 'off' because they take into account the way your hand changes the tool once you manipulate it.
	🤖 6:23pm tim: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:18 Hey Handy! Unfortunately not. I'm trying to save up vacation time for a couple MI trips with the kids this summer.
	6:23pm Barney Grubbs: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:19 oh cool—does it get into scientific glass blowers at all? used to be most academic chemistry departments had a glass blower. Now if you’re lucky there’s an itinerant old guy who occasionally drops by to pick up broken glassware.
	6:24pm joe mulligan: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:21 and also what's up with all the fake written words? on the other hand it's still an easy way to sniff out fake AI
	🤖 6:24pm Webhamster Henry: Hey I think that idiot is from s Spotify, not Suno!
	6:25pm coelacanth∅: "progress" is very often not progress.
	🤖 6:25pm Webhamster Henry: Stone is fun! Soapstone is really soft.
	🤖 6:26pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:24 Oh I guess it's also Suno's attitude too!
	🤖 6:26pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Barney Grubbs @6:23 No, set in the studio in Brooklyn. I have a friend whose wife is a glass scientist for Corning!
	🤖 6:26pm tim: 'Hard work' in sports is noble. Hard work in the rest of life is suckers.
	6:26pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:25 and somewhat more forgiving than wood
	🤖 6:26pm Deano de los Muertos: might be resharing a quote I heard from here but “I don’t want AI to make my art and music so I have time do dishes and laundry….i want AI to do my dishes and laundry so i have time to make art and music”
	🤖 6:27pm Webhamster Henry: Hard work means you need better tools.
	6:27pm ultradamno: He goes by Mikey, apparently www.thetwentyminutevc.com...
	🤖 6:27pm newton: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:25 alabaster too
	6:27pm Cassettivity: we need flow state to be happy!
	6:28pm The Oscar: Busy making dinner, but I just want to say this is a really lovely show. I love hearing people talk about doing things they love.
	🤖 6:28pm Webhamster Henry: Sure we coders zone in, but not having to fix up glue code and research what someone in an external library changes would be great.
	6:29pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Deano de los Muertos @6:26 i like the quote; but to me, dishes and laundry are just other meditations
	6:29pm mackeral: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:29 agreed
	🤖 6:30pm herb.nyc: Chris P sez “I realized I worked 8hr days on and on…”(paraphrased). I can relate. I used to do a zine and back in 1987(?), I used 3,4 vacation days but went to the office (empty, it was summer at a college). I used the computer and copier, then actually cut and pasted paper. It felt great! (I will submit for LCD. anyone else?)
	6:30pm mackeral: all the time saved... it won't be spent in some dream of leisure. we need to get over this.
	🤖 6:30pm PaulRobeson1925: Pretty soon Robo will take the hard, hard job of soldiering too
	🤖 6:30pm Deano de los Muertos: they’ve brought a Puma slicer into my dept in the last year or so..it usually just fucks up the meat
	🤖 6:31pm Deano de los Muertos: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:29 some chores are for me. Not those.
	🤖 6:31pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ Cassettivity @6:27 I agree! Very true with playing sports as a team
	🤖 6:32pm chresti: So what are the replaced craftspeople supposed to do? Doesn't anyone think this through?
	6:33pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Deano de los Muertos @6:31 cleaning, in general! -sort of a meditation, but about the last form of meditation i'd choose, if i could choose!
	🤖 6:33pm PaulRobeson1925: The way Mark just described this- Humans come in and finish making the art- could be said about making war
	6:33pm sunshine moonshine: Thank you for this show! Hand work! I make "art" with knife, wood, cloths, fibers, found objects and feel very alone in this modern world. SO happy to hear your show.
	6:34pm sunshine moonshine: The experience! yes, carving is life!
	6:34pm Henry Hudson's Distant Relative: "Who asked for it?" Exactly! I saw the same installation at MoMA as the caller, and had the same thought.
	🤖 6:35pm herb.nyc: If you look at St. John’s cathedral, visit city college of New York- 137th st and convent ave. Lotsa gothic bldgs and lovely gargoyles
	🤖 6:35pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ chresti @6:32 Marx's could not figure that out. Took him 2000 pages and he could not figure that part
	🤖 6:35pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:35 He was wrong about people. Right about machines
	6:36pm mackeral: these "conversations" very clearly separate those who understand Art from those who don't. Those who can hope to be enriched by Art, and those who never will.
	6:36pm StringOFperils: ↳ chresti @6:32 The Israeli historian Yuval Harari has written about this. He predicts an enormous global 'unemployable class' in the near future.
	6:36pm Rick G: The process more than the product, yes! It’s why I write frequently mediocre poetry, ha.
	6:36pm Ed: Great ep! Who asked for this stuff?!
	6:36pm Barney Grubbs: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:26 they know what they’re doing up there!
	6:37pm mackeral: ↳ StringOFperils @6:36 yes. Wall-E. the unemployables crowing for their next bingeworthy series
	🤖 6:37pm PaulRobeson1925: I don’t get art!
	🤖 6:37pm Deano de los Muertos: ↳ chresti @6:32 unfortunately there’s a very low interest in young people in trades, so Chris’ enthusiasm in teaching is good to generate interest. But yeah, existing tradesmen..”who cares” right?
	6:38pm StringOFperils: ↳ mackeral @6:37 Completely not understood.
	6:38pm Marie Chicago: Hey, really enjoying the show. Glad to hear your syndication is increasing so that these ideas get heard by more people. Thanks, Mark (and FMU)
	6:38pm Dano59: "only the lucky few" - true dat. Jenny Holzer put a finer, provocative point on it - "People who don't work with their hands are parasites"
	6:39pm coelacanth∅: ↳ mackeral @6:36 indeed. and unfortunately it seems the majority of people who are focused on money &/or power are in the "never will" group.
	6:39pm Cassettivity: ↳ chresti @6:32 become passive consumers, just as we've been slowly been doing for hundreds of years... until we are pure consumer...
	6:39pm Dano59: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:37 ... what's to get?
	6:39pm joe mulligan: for a long time my guitarist friend put down my interest in electronic music since it wasn't hands-on like the guitar. isn't AI just one step further than electronic music?
	6:40pm Cassettivity: ↳ joe mulligan @6:39 did they play electric or acoustic lol
	🤖 6:40pm Webhamster Henry: I think decades ago there was a service that would make a 3d scan of your face and carve it!
	6:40pm joe mulligan: ↳ Cassettivity @6:40 electric hahahahaha!!!!
	6:40pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Dano59 @6:38 not necessarily but usually
	6:41pm Dano59: i just saw a suggestion to keep AI content out of your search results - which is good, because dumb is the baseline on the internet. add "-ai" after your query/keywords
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ Dano59 @6:39 Artistic vision!!! What IT IS IT I don’t get art!
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: IT’S invisible!
	6:42pm mackeral: art "happens" between the creator and the experiencer. when we don't put in the hard work, as a creator, when we don't take that vocation seriously, the end product is disposable. The kite doesn't fly.
	6:43pm Fredericks: ↳ queems @6:07 Really? Freaky.
	6:43pm coelacanth∅: ↳ joe mulligan @6:39 "isn't AI just one step further than electronic music?" i will say no. it's not related to creativity, as good electronic music is.
	6:43pm StringOFperils: AI potentially will move away from humanity entirely, and very rapidly if, as described, it becomes exponentially more intelligent than human beings very rapidly. It will require all the resources it 'desires', and I don't see how it will require flesh, unless it converts it to energy.
	6:44pm joe mulligan: what about pop art and modern art etc.? does art need to be hard and difficult just to be art? or can it be a wild and beautiful expression that is simply in someone's mind?
	6:44pm ultradamno: How is electronic music not hands on? That's just silly.
	🤖 6:44pm PaulRobeson1925: Good answer
	🤖 6:44pm chresti: ↳ Cassettivity @6:39 How do they make a living to pay for what they consume? Pushing buttons?
	6:45pm Dano59: ↳ Dano59 @6:41 or maybe "-ai" isn't it. Google doesn't let you diisable it, but you can set web parameters to filter out AI overview results by adding “udm=14” The default is always costly/annoying/evil. (and I know, Get Off G-----!"
	6:46pm joe mulligan: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:43 fair enough, but what if it comes down to good and beautiful prompts rather than the challenge of knowing how to use ProTools? isn't ProTools just a more cumbersome AI?
	6:47pm wenzo: Really enjoying this chat! As someone who’s worked with my hands making sculptures & other things in the past this is resonating.
	6:47pm Dano59: ↳ herb.nyc @6:30 working on my submittable, Herb.
	🤖 6:48pm Ken From Hyde Park: According to ads on TV, if something is hard, order crap from Amazon to make it easier.
	6:48pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Dano59 @6:45 i don't use gobble, so it's not an issue on my laptops; but i need a new phone and refuse to buy one that has it preinstalled, or can't be "unistalled"...and i cannot find one. or a good one,anyway.
	6:48pm StringOFperils: Automation is not AI. AI is consciousness, not traditionally born of naturally evolving DNA. AI is very potentially your replacement. You may be one of the last generations of homo sapiens.
	6:48pm Persimmon: Does anyone else think that Chris sounds like Dave Mandl?
	🤖 6:48pm PaulRobeson1925: Hey kid. play sports because you will learn sportsmanship and in turn this will make you a good citizen and healthy. Good Sportsmanship is good for society
	🤖 6:49pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:48 T-Ball for health and not for the major leagues- great answer
	6:50pm Marie Chicago: Ireland already has a museum devoted to farming techniques and tools that were still being used in the 50s
	6:51pm Dano59: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:48 yes, again, the default is foisted on us.
	🤖 6:51pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:49 Fairness, respect & a sense of fellowship
	6:51pm coelacanth∅: ↳ joe mulligan @6:46 i don't know anything about pro-tools; but what you're saying reminds me of something like a keyboard that has preset rhythms, riffs and fills...they can be arranged to make something interesting, but the end result cannot honestly be called an original creation.
	6:52pm Marie Chicago: I love that analogy
	6:52pm StringOFperils: What you want may not be an issue with respect to this development.
	🤖 6:53pm PaulRobeson1925: 100,000 years of eating natural foods. And now we have the ability make food products and in turn make millions of our countrymen sick with diabetes and obesity
	6:54pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Dano59 @6:51 yes, i ask if it can be uninstalled and i get crickets. nobody else ever suggests such a thing, i guess.
	6:54pm Cassettivity: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:53 lol but we also wouldnt be able to feed 8.2B people if it was full of those lovely farms in VT where the cows have their own hot tubs.
	6:55pm Dano59: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:54 yeah, how dare you!
	6:55pm Matt en Queens: This has been an excellent interview with excellent interviewees. Makes look forward to visiting the cathedral in the Bronx more
	6:56pm Dean: Here at the university where I work we occasionally see a stone carver adding names to a stone wall of donors, etc. It is fascinating to observe. Stone carving might be one of the very few enterprises in which the products of our labor are not entirely alienated from us.
	🤖 6:56pm chresti: With _rump in office, gold leafing should be in high demand
	6:57pm ultradamno: And not here
	6:57pm joe mulligan: what if person 1 makes a song from one prompt. but person 2 makes a very elaborate complex musical masterpiece from 350 refined prompts?
	6:57pm mackeral: Irwin!
	🤖 6:57pm Deano de los Muertos: I forgot Irwin was covering too
	🤖 6:57pm chresti: Thanks Mark and guests!
	6:57pm Dano59: ↳ chresti @6:56 ... nah, not tacky enuff
	🤖 6:57pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ Cassettivity @6:54 I’m talking about sugar and man made fats, baby. Man made food stuffs. BHT TBHQ food products that are allowed in America that are not allowed in the EU. I’m not sure how to feed 8 Billion people!!? Rice? Canadian hot house tomatoes? Oats?
	6:57pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark! Thanks Chris and Arissa!
	6:58pm Dano59: 'Mr. Natural Does the Dishes' is a favorite of working artists
	6:58pm Mister Dobalina: Thanks, Mark.
	🤖 6:58pm Deano de los Muertos: Thanks Mark, Chris, and Ariana! Great show!
	6:58pm joe_rosevear: Well, hmmm, there is something to be said for cleverness.
	🤖 6:58pm Deano de los Muertos: *Arissa
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks guests!
	6:58pm joe_rosevear: But, it was a great show.
	6:58pm bleubombersune: Mark great interview thanks
	6:59pm jimphis: Great show! Very inspiring
	6:59pm full_english_breakfast: great show, great guests, thanks mark!
	6:59pm Mister Dobalina: Dan B. a gem.
	6:59pm joe mulligan: thanks for the discussion all, great show Mark! thanks for your thoughts Chris
	🤖 6:59pm PaulRobeson1925: Thanks Mark and guests! And it stoned me
	🤖 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: Stone cold great show tonight, Mark & guests!
	7:00pm StringOFperils: And there was darkness upon the water...
	🤖 7:00pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark, Carvers!
	🤖 7:00pm Will thee SG OCNY: Thank you Mark!!!
	7:01pm joe_rosevear: But I would not feel so all alone, everybody must get stoned!
	7:05pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from January 13, 2025

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