WFMU: World of Echo with Dave Mandl: Playlist from April 20, 2014

Listener comments!
	10:02pm Dave Mandl: Evening, good people.
	10:03pm pacific standard simon: Hello Dave and all kindly listeners! I will be back after Easter supper.
	10:03pm P-90: Evening @ DJ Dave M.
	10:04pm Dave Mandl: Hey, @pss, @P-90. By all means, finish your Easter dinner.
	10:09pm Droll: I'm hungry, too, but all I need to do is think of Irwin's warning about the True Meaning of Easter Eggs and my appetite is gone.
	10:15pm P-90: @ Droll: you mean "the testicles of Satan" issue?
	10:29pm pacific standard simon: Aaah... back. Roast pork with lemon glaze, steamed broccoli with garlic sauce, and apple sauce from our own apple tree (frozen last summer). No testicles, man. Maybe the apples could be considered the Breasts of Eris, eh?
	10:30pm P-90: Glass Casserole Lid is one of my favorite non-traditional instruments. Great choice!
	10:31pm mariano: There was a Simpson's episode where they're on a wagon train heading west, and after Homer kills the last buffalo and eats it, he asks what's left. Lisa hands him an apple, and he exclaims "buffalo testicles!"
	10:32pm pacific standard simon: I love garage rock/frat rock tunes featuring beer bottle percussion. Also guitar case percussion and oatmeal box percussion.
	10:34pm Droll: Cooking in my kitchen doesn't sound anything like that. Maybe I should replace the food processor with a signal processor.
	10:36pm pacific standard simon: There's an article in the latest Make magazine about making a contact mic out of the piezo-electric speaker in talking toys. Wonder if those singing greeting cards would work?
	10:38pm pacific standard simon: You could put a contact mic on your wire whisk, and make pancakes!
	10:38pm Droll: pss, Probably, but good luck working with the micro-miniature surface-mount electronics.
	10:40pm pacific standard simon: The problem is in the washing-up!
	10:46pm P-90: @ pss: you can find plenty of cheap tiny speakers to make mics out of, Droll's right that greeting card stuff is no good for that application
	10:48pm Andy says hi: not bad.
	10:49pm pacific standard simon: Good to know, thanks!
	10:53pm Droll: Analog electronics used to be cheap and easy to work with, now it's almost unheard of to use discrete components or analog anything. Digital electronics, unlike analog, don't bend, they just break.
	10:54pm pacific standard simon: Heroine, she's my wife and she's my life.
	10:55pm pacific standard simon: Or happy 4/20, pot-head pixies.
	10:58pm earrie: It could have gone hero or heroina, or any other direction, but no, it's heroin and heroine. Who's idea was that, I wonder?
	10:59pm Andy says hi: not too shabby
	10:59pm pacific standard simon: My mom got a copy of Days of Future Passed when I was a youth, and I came to loathe it.
	11:01pm Dave Mandl: Very overrated record, IMO. "To Our Children's etc." is much better.
	11:03pm Droll: Moody Blues hippie tech-worship music? What's that burning smell? Doesn't smell like electronics... Oh! Simon's right!
	11:03pm joeray: Dave, I thought you were leading up to playing: "In the Beginning" from Threshold of a Dream.
	11:04pm earrie: (Heroine v. Heroin The latter is a German trademark from way back when. And in german, heroine = die Heldin. ..Phoques.)
	11:05pm Dave Mandl: @joeray: Sorry!
	11:05pm pacific standard simon: As is aspirin, ja?
	11:08pm P-90: @Dave: you were right, "Eyes of a child" is like a snapshot of the musical moment when Prog began to evolve out of "Hippie Music"; the instrumental intro is very proto-proggy, then it becomes this dark and dirge-like, too-serious folk-rock thing
	11:10pm earrie: Aha, yeah. Aspirin, too. 'Whose word is it anyway?' is a flummoxing game if it's considered language.
	11:10pm joeray: @Dave: No need to be sorry. As usual,loving the show!
	11:11pm Dave Mandl: @P-90. Yeah. But most important, their keyboard player, Mike Pinder, worked in the factory where Mellotrons were manufactured. So of course they used tons of Mellotron.
	11:11pm pacific standard simon: I confess to being more of a "hippie music" fan than a prog fan. Early Steve Miller Band, and like that.
	11:11pm Droll: Moody Blues used lots of Mellotron, but I never considered them prog. I never considered Pink Floyd prog, either, but did consider Kansas prog. Prog was born in '67: Sgt. Peppers is the blueprint for prog.
	11:11pm Dave Mandl: @joeray: Thanks.
	11:13pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: You lose me with that Sgt. Pepper claim. They used non-RnR instruments and orchestras. But stylistically--no.
	11:14pm pacific standard simon: Also, connecting the dots with Droll, early Pink Floyd had blues roots in common with Steve Miller.
	11:17pm pacific standard simon: A lot of Sgt. Pepper sounded like a tribute to The Beatles' parents' music. Like Elvis Costello would do later.
	11:17pm Dave Mandl: Early ELP--THAT's prog.
	11:19pm Droll: DM, Not the bombast part, but the idea of a concept album with integrated lyrics, music, and packaging.. The notion of making progress on the whole enchilada altogether -- not just singles and compilations of singles (an album).
	11:19pm pacific standard simon: I always think of Gryphon when I think of Prog -- but, yeah, ELP first.
	11:22pm pacific standard simon: Dave, your daughter thinks you're a music nerd. But probably in a nice way. I'm SO glad you're not being filled-in this week!
	11:23pm P-90: pss: good point, a big part of Sgt. Pepper's is that it was part of a wave of nostalgia that was part of 60's culture, something we forget about now because everyone's been so busy being nostalgic FOR the 60's
	11:25pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: True, the concept album all that. But stylistically, I think it started with...maybe the Nice? Or possibly the Moody Blues. I am thinking of the bombast, which is a big part of it.
	11:26pm Dave Mandl: ...And then there were all the groups doing classical covers, like Hall of the Mountain King.
	11:26pm Dave Mandl: @pss: Thanks. She actually doesn't make fun of my music...yet. I'm sure she will eventually.
	11:28pm pacific standard simon: Any love for Robin Holcomb, here? I haven't heard anything in a long time, but I haven't been trying. The Linda Perhacs reminds me...
	11:29pm Droll: Yes, overplaying is a critical prog signpost, but I don't think it's required. Krautrock, which is a kind of prog, rarely overplays. Can are wonderful underplayers. Obviously Nice/ELP brought "Too Much Chops" to the party!
	11:30pm P-90: The Moody Blues and especially the Nice belong on the early part of the prog evolutionary tree. The Beatles broke a lot of new ground all over the place, in that sense helped lay the foundations, but were less truly proggy than some other bands. Factoid: John Lennon was quite the Yes fan, dug their originality and harmony singing
	11:31pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: It's funny, because when they used to say "progressive rock" it encompassed a lot more." "Prog," to me, refers to the heavy, bombastic, overplayed stuff.
	11:31pm Droll: Before I forget -- If anyone is still curious from last week's discussion about band names with exclamation points, all caps, or both: there are 1,452 Band!Names!, 18,596 ALL CAPS band names (too many to list), and 91 CAPS LOCK! band names. A sneak peek at the new site under construction -- it generates these lists more or less on the fly: 54.187.95.85...
	11:32pm Droll: Oh look! Kenzo's software broke that link while I was trying to talk about my software! I hate software! Someone give me a Rickenbacker!
	11:33pm P-90: @Droll : that "overplaying" thing about prog has been exaggerated and is misleading, quite a bit of quintessential prog is actually in quite spare, tight arrangements
	11:33pm mariano: @P90: Good point about nostalgia in the 60s for a bygone (pre-war) England. You can also really see it in the Kinks' "Village Green Preservation Society" and "Arthur." To me Sgt Pepper isn't prog, though I can see how prog expanded on the concept album idea. To me though prog has a fixation on what someone called "the dubious splendors of virtuosity," which was never part of the Beatles' aesthetic, not a lot of long solos, or showboating.
	11:34pm mariano: Some of Abbey Road is kind of proggy though, like "The End" suite.
	11:36pm pacific standard simon: BTW, Robin Holcomb = Mrs. Wayne Horvitz. Looks like I've missed some CD releases...
	11:38pm Droll: The musicianship aspect of prog (I didn't realize Prog is separate from Progressive Rock) came from Jazz. When jazz wasn't hip anymore, all the hot-shit players took up rock. Hard bop unison swinging at 160BPM and prog riffing are roughly the same thing in terms of musicianship.
	11:40pm pacific standard simon: I disagree, Droll. I think it comes from rock musicians who were infected with a CLASSICAL bug early on. What you're talking about is jazz-rock and/or fusion.
	11:42pm pacific standard simon: Not musically exclusive, though. King Crimson moved from proto-prog to fusion quite quickly.
	11:42pm P-90: @mariano: that streak of 1920's-30's nostalgia ran through 60's pop culture in the US too, not just England, where Paul's dad was of course a music-hall musician himself Also: the "long solos" and "showboating" things are misnomers that have been stuck to prog but just aren't true. Of course there are a few exceptions (ELP famously got lost in too-long solos, live on tour) but long solos were more the province of Allman Brothers and Cream type Psychedelic Blues bands, and "showboating" implies a kind of flashy theatricality that prog bands mostly avoided.
	11:44pm Droll: pss, Prog uses classical framework for songwriting and arranging, but in 1974 when King Crimson turned a 7 minute song into a 12 minute improvisational jam in 9/8 time -- that's jazz, even though there are strings (Mellotron and real).
	11:46pm pacific standard simon: Probably due to the departure of Greg Lake. Let's face it, "showboating" is all about pulling groupies. When Jean-Luc Ponty did it in Zappa's band, everybody would chant, "Soooooo!"
	11:47pm pacific standard simon: Whoops, that should be "Spooo!"
	11:48pm Droll: Pshaw! There's no money above the 5th fret.
	11:48pm P-90: Sorry, good guesses, but this time you're ALL wrong! Real prog didn't really come out of fixations with Jazz OR Classical. It came out of experimentation by English Psychedelic bands. Exceptions would be the Jazz-spawned Mahavishnu Orch, if that counts as Prog (it cetainly was an influence on Prog), and Rick Wakeman's training as a classical musician, pointedly an exception raher than the rule- and his Classical background did not determine his style as a rocker
	11:52pm earrie: Maybe it's like convergent evolution - like the eye. Many routes arriving at the same/a similar thing.
	11:53pm mariano: @P90: I guess showboating was too strong a term, wasn't trying to disparage the entire genre. Mahavishnu, though: that's fusion, I thought. As I understand it, fusion = jazz people playing rock, whereas prog people tended to come from the rock side. Weren't the seeds of prog really in the Canterbury scene, Robert Wyatt, people like that, the scene that gave rise to King Crimson as well as (I think) ELP?
	11:59pm pacific standard simon: @Mariano - hmm... the Soft Machine side, Canterbury, was often called prog, but now I tend to think of it as jazz-rock fusion. You can't point to one source, of course; a movement comes from multiple sources.
	11:59pm Droll: . o O ( Well, at least it's not a "This sux/rulez" debate ) Prog always had (and still has) conservatory trained ringers. At least we can all agree Mandl's wrong about Steely Dan. Thanks DM! Have a good week yinz!
	12:00am mariano: Eep! Outta time! Maybe continue discussion on next board? Thanks Dave!
	12:00am pacific standard simon: Oh Dave, go another hour! They're only subs!
	12:00am P-90: @mariano: your point about the Beatle's "medley"-style songs and "suites" being very proggyis well taken. Paul stayed with it in his early solo years, "medley" songs like "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" and "Venus and Mars/Rock Show" are pretty proggy. Also: after prog bands became prominent, they directly influenced things like "love Lies Bleeding" from Goodbye Yellow Brick Road"
	12:01am Dave Mandl: Thanks, everyone. You've been great as usual. See you next week.
	12:01am earrie: Regardios.
	12:01am P-90: Thanks Dave, and yes you're wrong about S. Dan...
	12:02am pacific standard simon: Wait, what about Steely Dan?!

World of Echo with Dave Mandl: Playlist from April 20, 2014

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April 20, 2014

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Artist	Track	Album	Approx. start time
Arto Lindsay	Invoke "Invoke" by "Arto Lindsay"	Invoke	0:00:00 (Pop-up)
Webster Lewis	Silent Lights "Silent Lights" by "Webster Lewis"	The Club 7 Live Tapes	0:04:52 (Pop-up)
The High Llamas	Cuckoo's Out "Cuckoo's Out" by "The High Llamas"	Hawaii	0:08:37 (Pop-up)
East-West Collective	Humeur de Terre	Humeurs	0:13:16 (Pop-up)
Jon Hassell	Sundown Dance "Sundown Dance" by "Jon Hassell"	Earthquake Island	0:17:31 (Pop-up)

R. Weis	Glass Casserole Lid Rocking on Ceramic Casserole	Excitable Audible	0:28:07 (Pop-up)
Factoria	God Knows You're a Liar "God Knows You're a Liar" by "Factoria"	Heroine	0:31:27 (Pop-up)
Ground-Zero	Stock, Hausen & Walkman Part 4: Constipations	Conflagration	0:35:02 (Pop-up)
Intelligent Shanghai Mono University	[Track 3]	7.9	0:38:39 (Pop-up)
Horace Tapscott	It Never Happened Before	The Tapscott Sessions Vol. 9	0:42:41 (Pop-up)

The Moody Blues	Eyes of a Child I	To Our Children's Children's Children	0:56:27 (Pop-up)
Skip Bifferty	Come Around "Come Around" by "Skip Bifferty"	Skip Bifferty	1:00:00 (Pop-up)
New Bums	Black Bough "Black Bough" by "New Bums"	Voices in a Rented Room	1:04:35 (Pop-up)
Tiny Ruins	Carriages "Carriages" by "Tiny Ruins"	Brightly Painted One	1:07:49 (Pop-up)
Henry Grimes Trio	Walk On "Walk On" by "Henry Grimes Trio"	The Call	1:12:26 (Pop-up)

Linda Perhacs	River of God "River of God" by "Linda Perhacs"	The Soul of All Natural Things	1:21:49 (Pop-up)
Pietro Grossi	Riccardo Andreoni: Studio Sugli Impulsi (estratto)	Combinaora	1:27:13 (Pop-up)
Karsh Kale	Drive "Drive" by "Karsh Kale"	Broken English	1:33:14 (Pop-up)
Thievery Corporation	Quem Me Leva	Saudade	1:36:57 (Pop-up)

Jeong Ga Ak Hoe & Hye Jin Yoon	A Deep Thinking Is Coming Across/A Bird Is Weeping with Sorrow	Thinking Being Irresistibly Burnt	1:45:17 (Pop-up)
The Haints of Dean Hall	Forelock of Gold	The Haints of Dean Hall	1:55:17 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	10:02pm Dave Mandl: Evening, good people.
	10:03pm pacific standard simon: Hello Dave and all kindly listeners! I will be back after Easter supper.
	10:03pm P-90: Evening @ DJ Dave M.
	10:04pm Dave Mandl: Hey, @pss, @P-90. By all means, finish your Easter dinner.
	10:09pm Droll: I'm hungry, too, but all I need to do is think of Irwin's warning about the True Meaning of Easter Eggs and my appetite is gone.
	10:15pm P-90: @ Droll: you mean "the testicles of Satan" issue?
	10:29pm pacific standard simon: Aaah... back. Roast pork with lemon glaze, steamed broccoli with garlic sauce, and apple sauce from our own apple tree (frozen last summer). No testicles, man. Maybe the apples could be considered the Breasts of Eris, eh?
	10:30pm P-90: Glass Casserole Lid is one of my favorite non-traditional instruments. Great choice!
	10:31pm mariano: There was a Simpson's episode where they're on a wagon train heading west, and after Homer kills the last buffalo and eats it, he asks what's left. Lisa hands him an apple, and he exclaims "buffalo testicles!"
	10:32pm pacific standard simon: I love garage rock/frat rock tunes featuring beer bottle percussion. Also guitar case percussion and oatmeal box percussion.
	10:34pm Droll: Cooking in my kitchen doesn't sound anything like that. Maybe I should replace the food processor with a signal processor.
	10:36pm pacific standard simon: There's an article in the latest Make magazine about making a contact mic out of the piezo-electric speaker in talking toys. Wonder if those singing greeting cards would work?
	10:38pm pacific standard simon: You could put a contact mic on your wire whisk, and make pancakes!
	10:38pm Droll: pss, Probably, but good luck working with the micro-miniature surface-mount electronics.
	10:40pm pacific standard simon: The problem is in the washing-up!
	10:46pm P-90: @ pss: you can find plenty of cheap tiny speakers to make mics out of, Droll's right that greeting card stuff is no good for that application
	10:48pm Andy says hi: not bad.
	10:49pm pacific standard simon: Good to know, thanks!
	10:53pm Droll: Analog electronics used to be cheap and easy to work with, now it's almost unheard of to use discrete components or analog anything. Digital electronics, unlike analog, don't bend, they just break.
	10:54pm pacific standard simon: Heroine, she's my wife and she's my life.
	10:55pm pacific standard simon: Or happy 4/20, pot-head pixies.
	10:58pm earrie: It could have gone hero or heroina, or any other direction, but no, it's heroin and heroine. Who's idea was that, I wonder?
	10:59pm Andy says hi: not too shabby
	10:59pm pacific standard simon: My mom got a copy of Days of Future Passed when I was a youth, and I came to loathe it.
	11:01pm Dave Mandl: Very overrated record, IMO. "To Our Children's etc." is much better.
	11:03pm Droll: Moody Blues hippie tech-worship music? What's that burning smell? Doesn't smell like electronics... Oh! Simon's right!
	11:03pm joeray: Dave, I thought you were leading up to playing: "In the Beginning" from Threshold of a Dream.
	11:04pm earrie: (Heroine v. Heroin The latter is a German trademark from way back when. And in german, heroine = die Heldin. ..Phoques.)
	11:05pm Dave Mandl: @joeray: Sorry!
	11:05pm pacific standard simon: As is aspirin, ja?
	11:08pm P-90: @Dave: you were right, "Eyes of a child" is like a snapshot of the musical moment when Prog began to evolve out of "Hippie Music"; the instrumental intro is very proto-proggy, then it becomes this dark and dirge-like, too-serious folk-rock thing
	11:10pm earrie: Aha, yeah. Aspirin, too. 'Whose word is it anyway?' is a flummoxing game if it's considered language.
	11:10pm joeray: @Dave: No need to be sorry. As usual,loving the show!
	11:11pm Dave Mandl: @P-90. Yeah. But most important, their keyboard player, Mike Pinder, worked in the factory where Mellotrons were manufactured. So of course they used tons of Mellotron.
	11:11pm pacific standard simon: I confess to being more of a "hippie music" fan than a prog fan. Early Steve Miller Band, and like that.
	11:11pm Droll: Moody Blues used lots of Mellotron, but I never considered them prog. I never considered Pink Floyd prog, either, but did consider Kansas prog. Prog was born in '67: Sgt. Peppers is the blueprint for prog.
	11:11pm Dave Mandl: @joeray: Thanks.
	11:13pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: You lose me with that Sgt. Pepper claim. They used non-RnR instruments and orchestras. But stylistically--no.
	11:14pm pacific standard simon: Also, connecting the dots with Droll, early Pink Floyd had blues roots in common with Steve Miller.
	11:17pm pacific standard simon: A lot of Sgt. Pepper sounded like a tribute to The Beatles' parents' music. Like Elvis Costello would do later.
	11:17pm Dave Mandl: Early ELP--THAT's prog.
	11:19pm Droll: DM, Not the bombast part, but the idea of a concept album with integrated lyrics, music, and packaging.. The notion of making progress on the whole enchilada altogether -- not just singles and compilations of singles (an album).
	11:19pm pacific standard simon: I always think of Gryphon when I think of Prog -- but, yeah, ELP first.
	11:22pm pacific standard simon: Dave, your daughter thinks you're a music nerd. But probably in a nice way. I'm SO glad you're not being filled-in this week!
	11:23pm P-90: pss: good point, a big part of Sgt. Pepper's is that it was part of a wave of nostalgia that was part of 60's culture, something we forget about now because everyone's been so busy being nostalgic FOR the 60's
	11:25pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: True, the concept album all that. But stylistically, I think it started with...maybe the Nice? Or possibly the Moody Blues. I am thinking of the bombast, which is a big part of it.
	11:26pm Dave Mandl: ...And then there were all the groups doing classical covers, like Hall of the Mountain King.
	11:26pm Dave Mandl: @pss: Thanks. She actually doesn't make fun of my music...yet. I'm sure she will eventually.
	11:28pm pacific standard simon: Any love for Robin Holcomb, here? I haven't heard anything in a long time, but I haven't been trying. The Linda Perhacs reminds me...
	11:29pm Droll: Yes, overplaying is a critical prog signpost, but I don't think it's required. Krautrock, which is a kind of prog, rarely overplays. Can are wonderful underplayers. Obviously Nice/ELP brought "Too Much Chops" to the party!
	11:30pm P-90: The Moody Blues and especially the Nice belong on the early part of the prog evolutionary tree. The Beatles broke a lot of new ground all over the place, in that sense helped lay the foundations, but were less truly proggy than some other bands. Factoid: John Lennon was quite the Yes fan, dug their originality and harmony singing
	11:31pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: It's funny, because when they used to say "progressive rock" it encompassed a lot more." "Prog," to me, refers to the heavy, bombastic, overplayed stuff.
	11:31pm Droll: Before I forget -- If anyone is still curious from last week's discussion about band names with exclamation points, all caps, or both: there are 1,452 Band!Names!, 18,596 ALL CAPS band names (too many to list), and 91 CAPS LOCK! band names. A sneak peek at the new site under construction -- it generates these lists more or less on the fly: 54.187.95.85...
	11:32pm Droll: Oh look! Kenzo's software broke that link while I was trying to talk about my software! I hate software! Someone give me a Rickenbacker!
	11:33pm P-90: @Droll : that "overplaying" thing about prog has been exaggerated and is misleading, quite a bit of quintessential prog is actually in quite spare, tight arrangements
	11:33pm mariano: @P90: Good point about nostalgia in the 60s for a bygone (pre-war) England. You can also really see it in the Kinks' "Village Green Preservation Society" and "Arthur." To me Sgt Pepper isn't prog, though I can see how prog expanded on the concept album idea. To me though prog has a fixation on what someone called "the dubious splendors of virtuosity," which was never part of the Beatles' aesthetic, not a lot of long solos, or showboating.
	11:34pm mariano: Some of Abbey Road is kind of proggy though, like "The End" suite.
	11:36pm pacific standard simon: BTW, Robin Holcomb = Mrs. Wayne Horvitz. Looks like I've missed some CD releases...
	11:38pm Droll: The musicianship aspect of prog (I didn't realize Prog is separate from Progressive Rock) came from Jazz. When jazz wasn't hip anymore, all the hot-shit players took up rock. Hard bop unison swinging at 160BPM and prog riffing are roughly the same thing in terms of musicianship.
	11:40pm pacific standard simon: I disagree, Droll. I think it comes from rock musicians who were infected with a CLASSICAL bug early on. What you're talking about is jazz-rock and/or fusion.
	11:42pm pacific standard simon: Not musically exclusive, though. King Crimson moved from proto-prog to fusion quite quickly.
	11:42pm P-90: @mariano: that streak of 1920's-30's nostalgia ran through 60's pop culture in the US too, not just England, where Paul's dad was of course a music-hall musician himself Also: the "long solos" and "showboating" things are misnomers that have been stuck to prog but just aren't true. Of course there are a few exceptions (ELP famously got lost in too-long solos, live on tour) but long solos were more the province of Allman Brothers and Cream type Psychedelic Blues bands, and "showboating" implies a kind of flashy theatricality that prog bands mostly avoided.
	11:44pm Droll: pss, Prog uses classical framework for songwriting and arranging, but in 1974 when King Crimson turned a 7 minute song into a 12 minute improvisational jam in 9/8 time -- that's jazz, even though there are strings (Mellotron and real).
	11:46pm pacific standard simon: Probably due to the departure of Greg Lake. Let's face it, "showboating" is all about pulling groupies. When Jean-Luc Ponty did it in Zappa's band, everybody would chant, "Soooooo!"
	11:47pm pacific standard simon: Whoops, that should be "Spooo!"
	11:48pm Droll: Pshaw! There's no money above the 5th fret.
	11:48pm P-90: Sorry, good guesses, but this time you're ALL wrong! Real prog didn't really come out of fixations with Jazz OR Classical. It came out of experimentation by English Psychedelic bands. Exceptions would be the Jazz-spawned Mahavishnu Orch, if that counts as Prog (it cetainly was an influence on Prog), and Rick Wakeman's training as a classical musician, pointedly an exception raher than the rule- and his Classical background did not determine his style as a rocker
	11:52pm earrie: Maybe it's like convergent evolution - like the eye. Many routes arriving at the same/a similar thing.
	11:53pm mariano: @P90: I guess showboating was too strong a term, wasn't trying to disparage the entire genre. Mahavishnu, though: that's fusion, I thought. As I understand it, fusion = jazz people playing rock, whereas prog people tended to come from the rock side. Weren't the seeds of prog really in the Canterbury scene, Robert Wyatt, people like that, the scene that gave rise to King Crimson as well as (I think) ELP?
	11:59pm pacific standard simon: @Mariano - hmm... the Soft Machine side, Canterbury, was often called prog, but now I tend to think of it as jazz-rock fusion. You can't point to one source, of course; a movement comes from multiple sources.
	11:59pm Droll: . o O ( Well, at least it's not a "This sux/rulez" debate ) Prog always had (and still has) conservatory trained ringers. At least we can all agree Mandl's wrong about Steely Dan. Thanks DM! Have a good week yinz!
	12:00am mariano: Eep! Outta time! Maybe continue discussion on next board? Thanks Dave!
	12:00am pacific standard simon: Oh Dave, go another hour! They're only subs!
	12:00am P-90: @mariano: your point about the Beatle's "medley"-style songs and "suites" being very proggyis well taken. Paul stayed with it in his early solo years, "medley" songs like "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" and "Venus and Mars/Rock Show" are pretty proggy. Also: after prog bands became prominent, they directly influenced things like "love Lies Bleeding" from Goodbye Yellow Brick Road"
	12:01am Dave Mandl: Thanks, everyone. You've been great as usual. See you next week.
	12:01am earrie: Regardios.
	12:01am P-90: Thanks Dave, and yes you're wrong about S. Dan...
	12:02am pacific standard simon: Wait, what about Steely Dan?!

World of Echo with Dave Mandl: Playlist from April 20, 2014

Listener comments!

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